16-inch MacBook Pro • Hacker News Board

Re: 16-inch MacBook Pro

#221

Post by ianai » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 2:30 PM UTC

mschaef wrote: post #124

htk wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel the same. The stubbornness of Apple that was so frustrating is a bit more flexible now, paying attention to "subtle" feedback like the arrow key's sizes.

It takes a long time to get a design through the point of manufacture... especially at that scale. And even before that happens, an organization needs to admit that it has to happen in the first place. For everybody saying the keyboard sucked and needed improvement, there were at least a few people within Apple that had staked something on the design as it was.

And yet, I don’t think I’ll upgrade solely because of the touchbar. It’s horrible.

Re: 16-inch MacBook Pro

#222

Post by Wowfunhappy » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 2:30 PM UTC

have_faith wrote: post #214

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #166

It feels as though Apple looked at the two biggest complaints, and gave the smallest concessions they possibly could. • The keyboard uses scissor switches (and thus hopefully won't completely die), but still only has 1mm of key travel. • They added back an escape key to the top row, but the touch bar is still there—and there's still no function keys as a result. The keyboard, okay, maybe Apple really needs those thin…

> maybe Apple really needs those thinness metrics for marketing purposes Surely the thinness of the keyboards hasn't been relevant in marketing in a while? what kind of consumer does this excite? Surprised Apple are still shouting about it.

I don't know! I would think so, but then why do they keep doing it?

I legitimately don't understand why you wouldn't add just a tiny bit more key travel. Typing is one of the primary functions of a laptop.

Re: 16-inch MacBook Pro

#223

Post by simonklitj » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 2:30 PM UTC

thierryzoller wrote: post #180

"the worlds best pro notebook" ? According to whom ?

Probably Apple.

Re: 16-inch MacBook Pro

#224

Post by jpalomaki » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 2:30 PM UTC

mmmBacon wrote: post #205

karpodiem wrote: post #18

Would it materially harm a company with a trillion dollar market cap to offer a version of this without the touchbar (thus yielding a lower price), so people can afford to upgrade the soldered memory and NVMe drive? Would it also harm them to make a version that didn't have soldered memory/NVMe drive? Ultimately, this is why I switched to a Dell Latitude. Being user hostile to basic memory/disk replacement doesn't fl…

One way Apple has become a trillion dollar company is by minimizing skus. Options mean inventory, development and test costs etc... and can be sources of quality problems triggering warranty repairs or replacements. Doing few things allows one to streamline both product development and manufacturing.

Minimizing SKUs was the Jobs way. I’d say Apple has since then taken very different approach. Just check the number of iPad and iPhone variants.

Re: 16-inch MacBook Pro

#225

Post by thrower123 » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 2:30 PM UTC

The 17" Pro from around 2011 was the world's best pro notebook. The things are still pretty capable beasts, even today.

Apple could do well to dust off that design, toss in an updated processor, and put whatever price tag they wanted on it.

Re: 16-inch MacBook Pro

#226

Post by Tankenstein » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 2:30 PM UTC

1_player wrote: post #182

Someone1234 wrote: post #22

Holy heck, they re-added a physical escape key. That's a huge improvement. a slight shame they didn't just move the touchbar up and re-add the F key row too, but it is a good compromise and improvement regardless. This could be the one a lot of people have been waiting for if the new switches/design pans out. PS - Although I might be an unusual demographic as I touch type and wouldn't use the touchbar regardless (sin…

> physical escape key I'm happy we VIM users have been loud enough to get the most important key back. :-) I know there's Ctrl-[ but it's 20 years of muscle memory to retrain, and I don't want to do that.

I really recommend rebinding caps lock to escape. macOS lets you do that natively in keyboard setting nowadays. Still muscle memory to relearn, of course.

Re: 16-inch MacBook Pro

#227

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 2:30 PM UTC

barrowclift wrote: post #72

Genuinely curious, why did so many developers ask for the return of the physical Escape key when you could easily re-map it to caps lock? Before this was an officially supported option, I always hated having to do big hand-shimmies every time I needed to press the escape key, which is quite often for programs like vim!

[deleted]

Re: 16-inch MacBook Pro

#228

Post by 8draco8 » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 2:31 PM UTC

torstenvl wrote: post #173

I am very happy about this and the Mac Pro -- it seems like Apple is finally admitting where it has room for improvement in hardware. Which, of course, makes me wonder whether they will ever abandon their hubris with software. There really ought to be a Rosetta-style compatibility layer for 32-bit and GC apps in macOS. Sadly, I don't think that will ever happen. Anyone know whether it's possible to install Mojave on…

If your workflow allows for switch then just pull the trigger and buy cheaper and faster Windows or Linux machine. IMHO Macs are extremely overpriced and should be bought only by people who are tied to MacOS ecosystem (iOS development, Final Cut Pro etc.)

Re: 16-inch MacBook Pro

#229

Post by StreamBright » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 2:31 PM UTC

charleshan wrote: post #184

Don't forget that the Touch Bar costs an additional $400 for consumers. The 2015 model was the best MacBook Pro. Perhaps the best laptop yet.

Same with iPhone 6s. Not sure why can't admit that reached the peak with a product and just keep producing it that way, maybe with minor modifications only. I would totally keep buying 2015 MPBs and iPhone6s till the end of times.

Re: 16-inch MacBook Pro

#230

Post by lowercased » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 2:32 PM UTC

merb wrote: post #199

charleshan wrote: post #184

Don't forget that the Touch Bar costs an additional $400 for consumers. The 2015 model was the best MacBook Pro. Perhaps the best laptop yet.

btw. the 16" model is cheaper than the 15" from the year before (in the base configuration they are equal, if you add additional ssd space or so, the 16" model comes out cheaper). not that it matters much, since the 15" pro late 2013 model was cheaper than both.

I just got a 2019 at end of May - earlier 2015 broke, needed one ASAP. Didn't want a Touch Bar (had returned a 2016 model I got on release - didn't like it). Now... same price, this has physical escape key and 1TB out of the box. Slightly annoyed...