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Microsoft 4-day week boosts productivity and sales

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Microsoft 4-day week boosts productivity and sales

#221

Post by EpicEng »

olyjohn wrote: post #210
Harvey-Specter wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has nothing to do with whether or not the job is hard. I've worked retail, food service, and landscaping jobs through high school and university. I know those jobs aren't easy. The difference is that those jobs require workers to be present throughout the day in order to get work done. As a software developer I could probably cut my hours per day and produce the same amount of output. As a waiter my productivity (…

There's an easy solution when workers are required to be present... don't make all the employees work at the same time. Need more hours of productivity? Hire more people. Also, as a waiter, your wages should not be paid by the customers. Tips are bullshit, and the rest of the world knows this. You should be paid a fair hourly wage.

>There's an easy solution when workers are required to be present... don't make all the employees work at the same time. Need more hours of productivity? Hire more people.

And now you've increased overhead and labor costs for these companies significantly while reducing the pay of the average worker (are cashiers going salary now?) I don't see how that works for anyone.

Re: Microsoft 4-day week boosts productivity and sales

#222

Post by EpicEng »

hinkley wrote: post #173
EpicEng wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, for years. It has nothing to do with hard or easy; the business doesn't function without you there. Comparing that to a job like ours makes no sense. Hours worked is directly correlated with output, unlike engineering.

Hours worked matters in software when the project is so mismanaged that there are regular emergency situations. Someone “has to” be around for those events. There are too many places that function like a firehouse and hours in seat matter at those places.

Of course people need to be present or available for emergency situations, I think everyone understands that.

Re: Microsoft 4-day week boosts productivity and sales

#223

Post by hinkley »

EpicEng wrote: post #222
hinkley wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hours worked matters in software when the project is so mismanaged that there are regular emergency situations. Someone “has to” be around for those events. There are too many places that function like a firehouse and hours in seat matter at those places.

Of course people need to be present or available for emergency situations, I think everyone understands that.

I think you missed the point.

The sort of people who want you in your seat 50 hours a week are often compensating for the other ways they're mismanaging resources.

Re: Microsoft 4-day week boosts productivity and sales

#224

Post by femto113 »

I'd love to see them do an experiment that compressed hours per day instead of days per week. I used to do consulting around the world for an American software company and Japan is the only place where I saw people straight up fall asleep in meetings. When I asked my hosts about this phenomenon they thought for awhile and then attributed it to a culture of "presence", which was basically a layered phenomenon of trying to be in the office before (and/or stay later than) other workers in your hierarchy. Seems this was a more obvious thing to measure than productivity since your boss notices precisely when you come in or leave. Tack on long commute times and pretty soon the workday has expanded to the point where getting enough sleep is physically impossible.

Re: Microsoft 4-day week boosts productivity and sales

#225

Post by redblacktree »

jonfw wrote: post #99
redblacktree wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd consider myself a Democrat, and I'm willing to pay more taxes for it. If people take a good look at their paychecks, I think most folks would be better off. Instead of paying (made up numbers) $800/mo to an insurer, you may pay an additional $600/mo in taxes. That's a win. And like someone above said, it makes people less tied to their jobs, which I think all workers should support.

> made up numbers And here lies the problem- you're using made up numbers. Obviously if we can cut healthcare spending while expanding access while maintaining our contribution to medica innovation, that would be a great thing. People just don't think that it's remotely realistic. Obamacare wasn't cheap Medicare and medicaid are very expensive and don't achieve the same results that the private industry does. Are VA…

You and I may disagree on how effectively-run a government single-payer would be vs. private insurance (and there is no reason to believe they couldn't co-exist), but let's set that aside for the moment.

My intent in making this post was really to call out the fact that, even for those of us lucky enough to have coverage through our employers, we're still paying quite a bit in premiums. So the net effect of public healthcare may be positive, flat or something else, but it isn't just a new tax and reduction in your paycheck. You stop paying a premium and start paying a tax.

Re: Microsoft 4-day week boosts productivity and sales

#226

Post by tonyedgecombe »

andy_ppp wrote: post #42
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/bbc/ Maybe a slight left bias although personally I think it's more a bias to the current sitting government. However there is plenty of UK media that sees the BBC as unfair competition and would love to see it disappear.

To be fair the licence fee has served its purpose. The BBC should move to a £10 per month Netflix model and be available world wide. It'd be a very profitable business and would easily make more in revenue for its current output than it does now.

That would mean a drop in revenue and leave questions about radio, in particular the world service. Programs are already available worldwide so revenue wouldn't increase.

Re: Microsoft 4-day week boosts productivity and sales

#227

Post by authoritarian »

devy wrote: post #27
notus wrote: post #2

> In contrast, Jack Ma, co-founder of Chinese online shopping giant Alibaba, has championed 12-hour working days. In April 2019, he described the "996" pattern, in which workers do 09:00-21:00 shifts, six days a week, as "a blessing". Yikes, that sounds depressing. > A report commissioned by the Labour Party in the UK suggested a four-day working week would be "unrealistic". The report seems to be missing the point o…

> Yikes, that sounds depressing. Perhaps - but more depressing is losing a high paying job and earning a minimum wage with no hope of living a comfortably life, in that local context. Taken it out of context makes it further apart from the true meaning. Success has no shortcuts - it requires 100k+ hours of hard working and perseverance. Working leisurely is for the folks that are already prosper (read: take a look at…

I've never had a job where I had to work more than 5 days and/or 40 hours a week. I did well in school, found a job that values work life balance, and have gone from security intern, to associate security engineer, and finally to security engineer over a 4 year period. It may not be a "high paying job" compared to someone who worked at FAANG, but I have been able to purchase a house and save for retirement in the years since I've graduated college all without ever having to kill myself by working a ridiculous amount of hours.

You can absolutely have it both ways

Re: Microsoft 4-day week boosts productivity and sales

#228

Post by whichquestion »

outside1234 wrote: post #105

I hate to burst the bubble here, but everyone I know at Microsoft Japan is still working at least a 5-day week. It's just that they don't come into the office on the 5th day. This is actually probably the key result from this experiment. Working at home that 5th day, allows workers, especially in Japan, where people feel a huge obligation to just hold down a chair even if there isn't work to be done, to work flexibly…

I’ve been working from home on Fridays at my current job for awhile now. I’m finding I’m vastly more productive on the days I work from home. That might be because I don’t have to commute, people aren’t bothering me, or whatever.

Even if they are still working the 5th day from home, it’s still a better trade off than having to be in the office 5 days per week.

That being said, 4 day work weeks would be great and I’m sure people would be just as productive, if not more so, as they are now.

Re: Microsoft 4-day week boosts productivity and sales

#229

Post by Vysero »

shaklee3 wrote: post #67
Vysero wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TBH I get 90% of my work done in the first 4-5 hours at work and then my productivity drops of significantly. When I was an independent roofing contractor me and my employees only worked in good conditions and only worked 4 days a week. I always paid them for 40 hours. I did really well as an independent contractor despite the offset in time.

Do you mind me asking why you got off of it? Housing downturn?

Yes as other have stated the profession is rather hard on your body. I suffered some serious back problems as a result of the manual labor and decided to peruse my interests in engineering instead.

Re: Microsoft 4-day week boosts productivity and sales

#230

Post by staticassertion »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #5
pgt wrote: post #3

Duplicate? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21433710 The aha comment that made me realise why this probably won't take off by @claudeganon [^1]: > "The whole arrangement is about control, preventing workers from having the time or energy to build competing enterprises, develop skills beyond a certain level, or organize against their employers. It’s the same reason why most big corps oppose a national healthcare s…

> It’s the same reason why most big corps oppose a national healthcare system in the US: it keeps people locked in to their current positions and has the knock-on effect of putting downward pressure on wages and turnover expenses. Is this... true?

As someone who has recently quit their job to start their own business, healthcare has been a huge barrier. I'm so, so lucky that I'm healthy enough to go on cheaper insurance and that I have people who can help me navigate the absurdly complex system of plans out there to pick a sensible one.

I know lots of other people who are petrified of losing their job because they aren't as healthy as I am.

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