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Tether: The Story So Far

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Re: Tether: The Story So Far

#221

Post by [deleted] »

CryptoPunk wrote: post #204
jcranmer wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pointing out that anonymous money flows are already effectively illegal, given the KYC/AML laws. At some point, any Funny Money system you create has to interact with the fiat system so that people can actually do stuff like pay their utility bills, and if Funny Money is triggering compliance alarm bells, and at that point, well, read the article. Something else to point out is that just because a system is unsus…

Anonymous money flows aren't illegal. There are those that would like to make them illegal, but all they've managed to institute so far is KYC/AML laws relating to third party payment processors. These laws don't apply to cash or its electronic corollary, cryptocurrency. Until a law is created that makes unmonitored use of physical and electronic cash illegal, anonymous money flows aren't across-the-board illegal. On…

[deleted]

Re: Tether: The Story So Far

#222

Post by draebek »

rsync wrote: post #61

"Bitfinex claims to have believed, per their court filings, that CCC subsidized their services through net interest. ... "This would make sense for a financial institution, but it doesn’t make sense for a money launderer, because risk-free assets generate very little interest (1% of a billion dollars doesn’t pay for the minimum viable financial institution) ..." I find that interesting ... 1% of $1B is $10M ... and I…

> Everbank (not owned by TIAA) is an online-only, no-branches honest-to-god US bank.

Sorry, I don't understand, are you saying Everbank was not bought by TIAA? (It seems that it was.) Or is there another "Everbank" other than the one that was now bought by TIAA? Or are you simply referring to Everbank as it existed before TIAA bought it?

Re: Tether: The Story So Far

#223

Post by lawn »

pietjepuk88 wrote: post #160
lawn wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cryptocurrencies aren't anonymous. Monero is. > They also don't eliminate payment processor risk Of course they don't magically solve all problems, but that doesn't make them useless. > I'm skeptical how many people in Venezuela saved their fortunes via Bitcoin et al I've read some article from people who did it, but I don't think it's common. The problem with leaving the country is, how do you take your assets wit…

Monero is unfortunately not really anonymous either in many common scenario's, like repeatedly sending payments to or from the same address. [0] It's definitely better than Bitcoin though, but far from anonymous. Overall I think that cryptocurrencies (and the internet overall) could use some better privacy strategies. Tor-like routing, no possibility of finger printing, etc. [0] https://slideslive.com/38911785/satosh…

I'm sorry if I made it sound like Monero is perfect, because it isn't. There are weaknesses to the protocol.

But then again nothing is perfect, neither is Tor.

Re: Tether: The Story So Far

#224

Post by xtat »

While the tether story is very interesting and the article does indeed tell it I cant shake the attempt at throwing shade on cryptocurrency broadly. I like patio11 but his takes on this space look to me like a guy who made a bad call years ago throwing shade on bitcoin and has to continue to justify it as the revolution happens around him.

Re: Tether: The Story So Far

#225

Post by lawn »

headsoup wrote: post #215
lawn wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Bitcoin is good enough for these use cases even if it's only pseudo-anonymous. But I do agree that the current valuation of Bitcoin is to a very large part driven by speculation, and from the network effect. As some comments here point to, Monero isn't even widely known despite being technically superior in many ways.

So what value should Bitcoin have then?

Impossible to say really.

I'm only confident in one thing: that Bitcoin shouldn't be valued 10-100x (or more) than some other coins.

Re: Tether: The Story So Far

#226

Post by teslaberry »

crypto is a method, that being a payment system algorithm, supported by u.s. banks, that is helpful for people to get non u.s. assets into a liquid u.s. denominated unit of account.

bitcoins worth comes from its speculative value as a dollar priced risk asset, and for that alone, due to it's 10 year positive return, has made it an attractive payment system. if tether makes bitcoin safer from a currency exchagne perspective, tether, with its implied valuee to the bitcoin crypto currency world, has made bitcoin more valuable, and of course is itself a derivative of bitcoin both in its foundational conception and in its ongoing desireability by users of crypt who primarily do deal in bitcoin.

bitcoin is one of the most effective payment system, cheapere and faster and easier than paypal for secreting away your money into dollars or euro.

that is, for people who cannot get or transport physical u.s. dollars or euro. is it easieer to launder digital cash than physical? no , it is not. is it harder? yes , yes it is. far more of a digital paper trail to erase.

the use case is capital flight.

it doesn't matter whether bitcoin was created by the nsa or cia. and satoshi is a spook code name. it matters what bitcoin and crypto have primarily become. and this is what they have become whether you liek it or not.

born as a speculative claim on a payment system that scaled a metcalf type power law in value. proved it could work, then offered itself as a capital flight mechanism to dollars.

simple. it is better than paypal. it doeesn't havee to conquer the world. it just has to compete succesfully with paypal and other similar money service providers.

Re: Tether: The Story So Far

#227

Post by vsl »

draebek wrote: post #222
rsync wrote: post #61

"Bitfinex claims to have believed, per their court filings, that CCC subsidized their services through net interest. ... "This would make sense for a financial institution, but it doesn’t make sense for a money launderer, because risk-free assets generate very little interest (1% of a billion dollars doesn’t pay for the minimum viable financial institution) ..." I find that interesting ... 1% of $1B is $10M ... and I…

> Everbank (not owned by TIAA) is an online-only, no-branches honest-to-god US bank. Sorry, I don't understand, are you saying Everbank was not bought by TIAA? (It seems that it was.) Or is there another "Everbank" other than the one that was now bought by TIAA? Or are you simply referring to Everbank as it existed before TIAA bought it?

They simply made a typo: “now”, not “not”.

Re: Tether: The Story So Far

#228

Post by bigbluedots »

Geee wrote: post #165
tptacek wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was writing descriptively, not normatively. You think there should be other uses for cryptocurrency besides speculation; he's saying it is overwhelmingly used for speculation.

I don't think there are as many speculators as he thinks. Most cryptocurrency users believe that it's a better form of money and want to own it. That is not speculation.

Right, but would those people want to own it if they didn't also expect the value to increase?

Re: Tether: The Story So Far

#229

Post by [deleted] »

mikekchar wrote: post #206
lawn wrote: post #70

> I have looked, quite a bit. I have not found a good use case yet I'm always surprised that intelligent and knowledgeable people claim this. You haven't even found a single use case? You don't think buying a VPN anonymously is a good use case? Or see the need for uncensorable donations? (Remember how the U.S. shut down Wikileak's PayPal donations when they exposed their war crimes?) Or that cryptocurrencies allow bu…

IMHO there is one killer feature for decentralised payment systems: it allows people who can not get a bank account with reasonable terms to make monetary transfers. People who are born into rich first world countries don't realise how difficult it can be. In many places in the world you can not get a bank account unless you have an address. You can not rent a place unless you can transfer money. You are stuck. Even…

[deleted]

Re: Tether: The Story So Far

#230

Post by CaptainZapp »

mikekchar wrote: post #206
lawn wrote: post #70

> I have looked, quite a bit. I have not found a good use case yet I'm always surprised that intelligent and knowledgeable people claim this. You haven't even found a single use case? You don't think buying a VPN anonymously is a good use case? Or see the need for uncensorable donations? (Remember how the U.S. shut down Wikileak's PayPal donations when they exposed their war crimes?) Or that cryptocurrencies allow bu…

IMHO there is one killer feature for decentralised payment systems: it allows people who can not get a bank account with reasonable terms to make monetary transfers. People who are born into rich first world countries don't realise how difficult it can be. In many places in the world you can not get a bank account unless you have an address. You can not rent a place unless you can transfer money. You are stuck. Even…

it allows people who can not get a bank account with reasonable terms to make monetary transfers.

This is really pretty much a solved issue since 2007, at least in big parts of Africa. And with none of the bad whiff and dodginess, which inevitable comes with just about any crypto currency scheme.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Pesa

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