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Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

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Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#221

Post by m-p-3 »

djsumdog wrote: post #138

The Apple/Play stores are essentially a totally broken implementation of something that had existed for over a decade before: package repositories. It's embraced and extended Linux/BSD package/ports trees, except without things like the ability to add a 3rd party repository with other authors signing keys, pin certain versions, etc. https://battlepenguin.com/tech/android-fragmentation/#packag... We could go on about…

Thank goodness F-Droid exists and allows additional repos to be added, and even put donation links in the app listing when possible.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#222

Post by bagacrap »

Crazyontap wrote: post #43

A lot of people justify Google and Apple's 30% because they provide an app store and distribution. But Android is Android because of these apps. Without them it would be like the Windows phone which was nice but didn't get enough apps on it and so it failed. These companies depend on our apps as much as we depend on their app store for distribution. Fuck apple for starting this walled garden and creating a parasitic…

TBH Google Maps was the killer app that smartphones needed to get off the ground. Out of 13 apps on my home screen, 7 are Google apps. Both Apple and Google did a little more than building the framework and then sitting back...

So how do you decide what a fair cut is? Over the course of a month, given all your app and system usage, and all the pieces of software you've touched or relied on, what percent of the engineer hours required for that stuff to work came from Google/Apple vs coming from third party app makers? Is that how you decide the split? Because I have a feeling the time it took to build the 15 third party apps I might touch in a month don't come close to the level of effort required to have built the system and first party apps.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#223

Post by monocularvision »

gowthamgts12 wrote: post #159
zimbatm wrote: post #127

The problem of donation links from Google's perspective is that they are not getting their 30% cut. You might think that this is unfair, but the app is using their distribution platform. It's possible to make open source applications and still ask for payment on Google Play, either as the asking price, subscription or by adding in-app payments for donations. This is the right way to do it, and will probably also have…

Going by your point, shouldn't Amazon be blocked since they are collecting the payment info and charging without any interference from Google? How are donation links being considered to be in violation? Just wondering!

Both stores require payment through their app stores for digital goods. Neither require it for physical goods (Amazon). The donation is for the software itself and so requires payment via Apple/Google.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#224

Post by bagacrap »

tyfon wrote: post #134
izacus wrote: post #5

For anyone else publishing mobile apps: Neither Apple nor Google allow bypassing the store's purchase system by linking to external donation pages. No matter the app type, it will result in rejection.

I wonder what would happen if you link your your home page and you have a donation link there. How deep does it have to be before they cut you off? Can you link to a page that is only linking to another page where the donation happens? How much extra text would you need to "pass inspection". I find these kinds of arbitrary rules very unsettling. It's definitely time to break up the tech giants. It is odd that they re…

Break up the tech giants? How is that going to result in having 5 Androids and 6 iOSs? The nature of the technology and market is what drives consolidation. It's a testament to the quality of both platforms that we even have two options.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#225

Post by [deleted] »

fwn wrote: post #144
zimbatm wrote: post #127

The problem of donation links from Google's perspective is that they are not getting their 30% cut. You might think that this is unfair, but the app is using their distribution platform. It's possible to make open source applications and still ask for payment on Google Play, either as the asking price, subscription or by adding in-app payments for donations. This is the right way to do it, and will probably also have…

> This is the right way to do it Might be convenient and great for Googles revenue, but it's the wrong way to do it if your priorities are to reduce the projects platform-dependence and to support the project with your full donation. Usually, once I decide to contribute money to a project I want them to be as free as possible and I want them to get as much of that money as possible. Independent from the specific app…

[deleted]

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#226

Post by danShumway »

dewey wrote: post #91
gorgoiler wrote: post #76

Ugh, app stores! No one needs them for discovering new software. You go to the app store to get a specific piece of software you already know about and whose reputation you’ve already verified. No one needs them for code signing. If you want the real firefox.apk you can download it from https://firefox.com/ and notice a lack of SSL alarms going off. What’s the code signing for — to let me know that HTTPS works?! All…

> No one needs them for discovering new software. There's also people that don't know that they need "Firefox", they just want a browser. Or a tool to print envelopes or crop an image. So they search in the app store and they know it'll probably be okay. If you search for this online you'd get a bunch of SEO spam sites, shady tools among other things. At least due to the developer fee and reviews there's at least som…

> So they search in the app store and they know it'll probably be okay.

Bad plan, both on iOS and Android. You should not be installing random apps unless you vet them first.

People keep going back to the "users are stupid" argument, but (particularly on Android) the app store does not protect users. Installing random apps or trusting the first app that shows up is a terrible thing to teach dumb users to do.

If you want to protect users to the point where they don't need to think at all, you need to be way more locked down than iOS/Android currently are -- you need Nintendo Switch levels of moderation, vetting, and sandboxing. The problem is that very few people (dumb users included) want that level of vetting for a smartphone.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#227

Post by brewdad »

scarface74 wrote: post #185
black_puppydog wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can even go along your last point. But it's a different argument to say "going through google is more efficient" or to say "you can't not go through google". Frankly, they're using their market dominant position to force free developers into a distribution model that serves them as the payment processor. I'd not go so far as to argue those are separate businesses, but it's really a blatant abuse of their power. Arg…

Can I sell a product within any retail store and sell it without the retailer getting a cut?

The Girl Scouts sell cookies at the front door of grocery stores with an entire aisle dedicated to cookies. The stores give them permission to do so knowing the goodwill outweighs any loss in Oreo sales.

Google could make the same choice but doesn't for some reason.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#228

Post by [deleted] »

CountHackulus wrote: post #211
krageon wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> who should not be expected to ever know even the minimum about the underlying tech I have worked in this industry for long enough to know that even assuming a minimum of knowledge at all is a bad idea. You can fight this fight as you want, but this comment has nothing in it to convince be otherwise.

Why do you think this? It's a pretty bold statement.

[deleted]

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#229

Post by gravypod »

CountHackulus wrote: post #211
krageon wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> who should not be expected to ever know even the minimum about the underlying tech I have worked in this industry for long enough to know that even assuming a minimum of knowledge at all is a bad idea. You can fight this fight as you want, but this comment has nothing in it to convince be otherwise.

Why do you think this? It's a pretty bold statement.

Not the original person but: In one company I had built a reporting system. An end user generated a report and contacted support. The report contained a column that they didn't understand the meaning of..... The column was "Date" and it was the date that had occurred. They suggested that we explained that in the generated report because it was confusing. This was a medical professional.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#230

Post by bagacrap »

esotericn wrote: post #50
irjustin wrote: post #35

I know this will be against deeply against HNews but I'm open to discussion. I don't see anything wrong with this. Charging vs Donations, I don't see what the difference is. It's people paying money for good/services/software. The primary difference is the open ended pricing model. Google, Apple put up networks and there's value in that network. Whether someone chooses to release their app for free or charge money fo…

You're stating, essentially, that anyone who wants to publish FOSS software with a donation link should be forced to go through some convoluted procedure and register as a charitable organization. (where? in the US? in their specific region? does it matter? how much time will it take for them to figure out? is this even possible in all regions? does this require ongoing effort e.g. accounting, document submission, ge…

Not for profit status is susceptible to abuse so I'm glad the process is strict. But you're proposing that app developers should be able to self-describe as charitable in order to dodge fees? And how well do you think that would work exactly?
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