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The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

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Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#221

Post by [deleted] »

umvi wrote: post #219
malvosenior wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is happening, it's 100% due to bad management. It means the employee wasn't given creative freedom and a strategic direction to go in. The very last thing any manager should ever do is punish their best employees (e.g. the person who can finish a whole day's worth of work very quickly).

> The very last thing any manager should ever do is punish their best employees (e.g. the person who can finish a whole day's worth of work very quickly). They are not the "best employees" if they are constantly idling, waiting for me to tell them what to do next. People here seem to think the ideal manager/subordinate relationship is that of a worker thread pool where the manager fills the queue and the worker threa…

[deleted]

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#222

Post by k__ »

JDiculous wrote: post #218
k__ wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked with both types of people. Funny thing is, when I am a freelancer, who gets paid much more money per hour than an employee, people valued my time and would send me mails or text messages and wait hours or days for an answer,. When I was an remote employee, people paid me less and called me three times before 10am. Somehow, many employers have the perception to own every minute their employees are awake. I wo…

Yea, I'm contracting remotely and the difference between working a full-time job in the office seems to be night and day. As a remote contractor, they judge me by my results and trust me to do my job however I see fit. No hand-holding or micromanaging, only one standup every couple days. Meanwhile at the office I've got to attend a morning attendance meeting everyday, a bunch of other useless meetings, and I need to…

Especially the sleeping...

I have not set an alarm for months now.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#223

Post by malvosenior »

umvi wrote: post #219
malvosenior wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is happening, it's 100% due to bad management. It means the employee wasn't given creative freedom and a strategic direction to go in. The very last thing any manager should ever do is punish their best employees (e.g. the person who can finish a whole day's worth of work very quickly).

> The very last thing any manager should ever do is punish their best employees (e.g. the person who can finish a whole day's worth of work very quickly). They are not the "best employees" if they are constantly idling, waiting for me to tell them what to do next. People here seem to think the ideal manager/subordinate relationship is that of a worker thread pool where the manager fills the queue and the worker threa…

It sounds like you do value creativity and autonomy. If that's the case why would it matter how many hours someone was working? Judge them by their output, not how they got there.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#224

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

dmix wrote: post #179
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #2

I tried sharing these studies at my ex employers in Europe hoping they'd spare me the hellish 40 minute commute in stop/start traffic and they weren't interested at all. Management there only values "butt time in seats" and the ability to come over and interrupt you by tapping you on the shoulder whenever they need something. As one of my ex CEOs put it: "If I don't see my employees stressing out at thier desks I get…

> the ability to come over and interrupt you by tapping you on the shoulder whenever they need something. Yeah, the answer to the OP articles question about why the remote studies work out that way isn't a big mystery. The first thing you learn working from home is self-motivation and training yourself to get "in the zone". Then try doing the same at an office, where interruptions are far more often. But that said no…

What if I'm both a creative/engineer (DS, actually), and an extrovert/talker? Do I need to ignore myself when I have headphones on?

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#225

Post by jve »

Merrill wrote: post #113
otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> interrupt you by tapping you on the shoulder whenever they need something Well, yes, that's what you're being paid for. The alternative is hard KPI's and getting fired for not meeting them, which is not something you really want.

I know one person who works remotely in transcribing and one in editing. They have specific numbers to meet in terms of lines and pages. In fact the transcriber is paid by quantity.

Probably works for them. But don't measure code like that.

Bill Gates: Measuring programming progress by lines of code is like measuring aircraft building progress by weight

And then, how do you measure someone refactoring code and ending up with -1kLOC?

Or someone thinking hard for a few days to come up with an elegant algorithm?

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#226

Post by watwut »

malvosenior wrote: post #205
watwut wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would find it unethical, including in team where I am fastest.

What's unethical about it? If someone produces what needs to be done, then does it matter how they do it?

Just like I don't want employer to flip it into "we need 12 hours worth of work" or hold unrealistic deadline over mu throat, I will ask for new task if original estimate was too short.

I did actually signed contract that actually specifies fI'll time - 40 hours.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#227

Post by BeetleB »

diminoten wrote: post #196
BeetleB wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Article is espousing the benefits of asynchronous communication. If the expectation is that I respond within a minute or so, then it is synchronous. Can you suggest a better way to use IM that doesn't require me to respond quickly? I'm fine with IM for sending over quick URL's, etc while doing a live debug or something. But if you just have a "quick question", email me if not urgent or come to my cube if it is. If yo…

"Sure, let me get back to you later."

That's a guaranteed way to be disturbed again in an hour or two.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#228

Post by malvosenior »

watwut wrote: post #226
malvosenior wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's unethical about it? If someone produces what needs to be done, then does it matter how they do it?

Just like I don't want employer to flip it into "we need 12 hours worth of work" or hold unrealistic deadline over mu throat, I will ask for new task if original estimate was too short. I did actually signed contract that actually specifies fI'll time - 40 hours.

That's not how creative work works though. Do you ever think about your code at night or the weekend? Mental work is basically always on and can't be judged by the amount of time at the keyboard implementing it. The whole concept of tasks per hour doesn't map well to software development.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#229

Post by JDiculous »

k__ wrote: post #222
JDiculous wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, I'm contracting remotely and the difference between working a full-time job in the office seems to be night and day. As a remote contractor, they judge me by my results and trust me to do my job however I see fit. No hand-holding or micromanaging, only one standup every couple days. Meanwhile at the office I've got to attend a morning attendance meeting everyday, a bunch of other useless meetings, and I need to…

Especially the sleeping... I have not set an alarm for months now.

I've always said one of my primary goals in life is to not have to wake up to an alarm. I'm so used to it now I didn't even think to mention it, but reading your comment I just realized I've achieved that.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#230

Post by MaxBarraclough »

baron_harkonnen wrote: post #157
fizx wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has gone to the dark side, there's an interesting tradeoff here. There's basically three scenarios: (1) all employees are trusted and unmeasured, but you have to tap people on the shoulder every once in a while to confirm that they're on track. Naturally, this is easier if everyone is on-site. (2) everyone is accountable for producing of tickets, and you can check that everyone is at least doing some w…

In the many jobs I've had I've never seen "things go side ways" because those tricky employees have finally found a way to not do any work! By and large the vast majority of workers have the capitalist cultural logic deeply ingrained in their psyche and personally feel value only when they produce meaningful work. Most people are not trying to get away with doing less, and, at least in my experience, feel the most sa…

> There are no companies that have failed because the workers have finally figured out how to sneak their way out of doing work.

I suspect there are such companies, but that the guilty individuals weren't serious professionals. Hire bad enough 'developers' and I can see it becoming a problem.

If the job is shovelling snow, I imagine it becomes one of the management's chief concerns.

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