Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy • Hacker News Board

Re: Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy

#221

Post by notduncansmith » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 8:50 AM UTC

ajmurmann wrote: post #174

thecleaner wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A large part of this vision fund is basically Saudi oil money. These folks realize that oil doesn't have that much future if you think in terms of hundreds of years, so they are looking to diversify. Vision fund is not a tool to be on the cutting edge, its just a means to not be left behind. Hence they let VC market decide which horse is worth backing and then they swing their dollars around to see what happens.

That’s another thing I never got about Saudi’s investments. To me the obvious strategy with all the money would have been to not invest in empty skyscrapers or foreign investments, but pick two or three areas in which you massively bolster research and investment in an area like solar energy. Investment would be local and you try to attract all to talent in the field for both fundamental research as well as to fund c…

When you have so much money to play with, there is just no one basket to put even most of your eggs in. Yes, they have put many into Vision Fund, but many other arenas (especially political ones) demand funding and will not go unfed by mama bird and her oil money.

Re: Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy

#222

Post by mprev » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 9:00 AM UTC

banachtarski wrote: post #205

loganfrederick wrote: post #16

What I don't get about the Vision Fund is how so many of its investments lack (pun intended) vision. Other than the ARM, Nvidia, and a few billion in biotech (about $3 billion[1]) investments, so much of the fund has gone into pretty "obvious" traditional startups. If I had a $100 billion fund, I wouldn't be swinging for these singles and doubles (which Uber and WeWork were by the time Softbank got involved, although…

The vision fund was a joke to me ever since the investment into Improbable (which I regard as an outright scam).

I’d love to read more of your take on Improbable.

Re: Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy

#223

Post by lazyjones » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 9:01 AM UTC

olivermarks wrote: post #182

lazyjones wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway did the same thing, it has worked very well for their economy so far.

Norway's sovereign wealth fund is vastly larger than the Saudi Arabian one, SA don't have much room to maneuver if the Aramco ipo doesn't work and these investments fail

> vastly larger than the Saudi Arabian one

By one order of magnitude these days, the Norwegian fund's market value was less than $100b in 2004 though.

Re: Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy

#224

Post by smcl » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 9:34 AM UTC

throw313123 wrote: post #203

ajmurmann wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s another thing I never got about Saudi’s investments. To me the obvious strategy with all the money would have been to not invest in empty skyscrapers or foreign investments, but pick two or three areas in which you massively bolster research and investment in an area like solar energy. Investment would be local and you try to attract all to talent in the field for both fundamental research as well as to fund c…

The Saudis have also done that with KAUST; from what I heard they have turned off all their weird laws in this region of SA (like a SEZ), and were hiring aggressively a few years ago (from the US). I occasionally stumble on some interesting projects from this University, but I for one would be very weary of moving to a desert region where women were disallowed from driving until a few years back, and need to be drape…

Hate to be that guy but I see it so often on HN that I think it’s worth correcting.

You’re wary of moving to a desert special economic zone if you are unsure or suspicious of it

You’re weary of it if you have moved to many such zones already and you are a bit sick of it

Re: Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy

#225

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 9:35 AM UTC

pmiller2 wrote: post #136

thecleaner wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A large part of this vision fund is basically Saudi oil money. These folks realize that oil doesn't have that much future if you think in terms of hundreds of years, so they are looking to diversify. Vision fund is not a tool to be on the cutting edge, its just a means to not be left behind. Hence they let VC market decide which horse is worth backing and then they swing their dollars around to see what happens.

Hundreds of years? There’s a reasonable probability _human civilization_ doesn’t have hundreds of years on this planet.

[deleted]

Re: Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy

#226

Post by samsonradu » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 9:39 AM UTC

xnyan wrote: post #119

wolco wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ability to find php developers is usually a reason to choose php. It's actually harder to find good js developers. Javascript frameworks work nicely with php acting as an api. An even better approach is a hybrid that allows you to use a framework like Vue/React or a libruary like jQuery but also allows you to use php to power your pages. This gives you the ability to have an spa per section. A common approach is to u…

Hey! New dev honestly trying to learn why PHP matters at all in 2019. Is PHP something I should stop learning JS for? In all my (very limited) experience, PHP does not solve any problem JavaScript can't, and JS is also far more in demand.

> PHP does not solve any problem JavaScript can't.

PHP matters and if anything it would be good for you to learn both. It will give you a better insight on different ways to build software and use the appropriate solution.

PHP is a mature ecosystem with reliable tools/frameworks. It is relatively easy to learn and you can become productive quickly.

One benefit I find of PHP that is less mentioned:

When your team is short on people (and that happens quite often), you can pretty much throw anyone (provided they are generally competent) at a PHP codebase and they will do well. Wouldn't say the same for a back-end JS project, I've seen what a Java developer can do to a JS codebase.

PHP bites far less often than JS in my opinion.

Re: Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy

#227

Post by RomanBob » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 9:45 AM UTC

ajmurmann wrote: post #174

thecleaner wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A large part of this vision fund is basically Saudi oil money. These folks realize that oil doesn't have that much future if you think in terms of hundreds of years, so they are looking to diversify. Vision fund is not a tool to be on the cutting edge, its just a means to not be left behind. Hence they let VC market decide which horse is worth backing and then they swing their dollars around to see what happens.

That’s another thing I never got about Saudi’s investments. To me the obvious strategy with all the money would have been to not invest in empty skyscrapers or foreign investments, but pick two or three areas in which you massively bolster research and investment in an area like solar energy. Investment would be local and you try to attract all to talent in the field for both fundamental research as well as to fund c…

Saudis do not want smart people being middle class in their country. That would ruin their theocratic state.

Re: Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy

#228

Post by tekkk » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 9:46 AM UTC

hdfbdtbcdg wrote: post #214

wavefunction wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JavaScript predates PHP by five years. 'Maturity' is a subjective quality in my opinion and I also think PHP is a hot mess. JavaScript is synchronous unless you specifically utilize its asynchronous parts. Asynchronous execution is possible with PHP

> think PHP is a hot mess. Have you used PHP in the last 5 years?

I'm not trying to pick a side here, and I'm sure modern PHP is fantastic with Laravel and all that. But it seems to me that the PHP-advocates are failing to understand that impressions matter a lot to developers. I wouldn't touch PHP with a ten-foot pole if I can. Not because modern PHP is terrible but that the baggage of terrible PHP is still strong in my memory, and I'm not willing the re-evaluate PHP as my choice for backend because of that. Period. That ship has sailed.

Sure TS with something like Express has its disadvantages but I'm ok with it. It's the tool I use for a specific job and there's a lot more useful things to learn than another language & framework just for its sake.

Re: Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy

#229

Post by ghaff » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 9:53 AM UTC

puranjay wrote: post #219

slimsag wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But.. they said they are all experts and care about animals! And the founders are super-genius hackers from MIT!

A business like this that doesn't really rely on technology would be far better run if it was helmed by MBAs with operational experience. This entire business is basically a gigantic spreadsheet where you move things around to optimize profitability. Believing that this is a "tech" startup is where you start to fail. I see so many businesses fail to make this distinction. Stripe is a tech company, as is Boston Dynami…

It’s like pretty much every other one of these market making companies. At a local level—it’s something that people can and do organize with telephones, email, and maybe calendars and spreadsheets.

I’m not sure what the advantage of having the same service exist in a bunch of cities is.

And you have the usual problem that most people prefer to use individuals they are comfortable with and have maybe been recommended by friends. Especially for something like dog walking.

Maybe there’s a market for selling dog walking business kits with software. But that’s not $300m.

Re: Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy

#230

Post by jpalomaki » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 9:55 AM UTC

loganfrederick wrote: post #16

What I don't get about the Vision Fund is how so many of its investments lack (pun intended) vision. Other than the ARM, Nvidia, and a few billion in biotech (about $3 billion[1]) investments, so much of the fund has gone into pretty "obvious" traditional startups. If I had a $100 billion fund, I wouldn't be swinging for these singles and doubles (which Uber and WeWork were by the time Softbank got involved, although…

One question is: Why would a promising startup take a $5-20M investment from Vision Fund and not from somebody else?

If you are $10M investment in a fund of $100B you won't be getting much support or mind share from your investor. It's not just VCs shopping for companies to invest in. It's also companies thinking from whom to take the money.