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You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

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Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#221

Post by Wowfunhappy »

throwawaycert wrote: post #217
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By not allowing JITs, just like on iOS.

iOS allows JITs. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You're using bad or outdated second or third-hand info with no regard for the game of telephone involved in getting it to you, nor the anti-Apple zealots obfuscating the truth on its way.

Are you sure? I admittedly can't find a definitive source on this now, so perhaps the restriction is more nuanced than I realized.

What I do know is: if you try to use more intensive emulators like PPSSPP on a non-Jailbroken iOS device (via a developer account, enterprise cert, or similar), you will not get acceptable performance, because the emulator is forced to fall back into an interpreter mode.

Even on Jailbroken devices, the hacks required to make JIT work cause weird issues: https://github.com/hrydgard/ppsspp/issues/9186

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#222

Post by Wowfunhappy »

scarface74 wrote: post #211
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By not allowing JITs, just like on iOS.

So you really think Apple is not going to not allow the Mac to run any scripting language or program that runs on top of a VM? Do you think they are also going to take away shell access? They are also not going to allow any Electron apps?

> So you really think Apple is not going to not allow the Mac to run any scripting language or program that runs on top of a VM?

No, I don't, double check which commenter you're replying to. :)

I'm just arguing Apple could lock down macOS if they wanted to, without making iOS development impossible.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#223

Post by dwild »

lancesells wrote: post #207
dwild wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Besides video games you could add movie rentals and sales, tv show rental and sales, music sales, PPV events, book sales, Steam... Can you be more specific? I know plenty of places to rent 'A' movie for example. I also know plenty of alternative to Steam on PC, yet none on iOS device. If you talked about games on console that can't be 'A' rated. I would agree completely that it's wrong and I'm pretty sure that almo…

Consider if you upload a book to Amazon to sell they are taking anywhere from 30% to 65% of the sale. Or if you rent a movie from YouTube i'm sure they are taking some percentage in that ballpark and sending the rest to the movie studio. My point is that all of these digital platforms are taking a percentage that is in that range. Apple probably gets called out the most because it's open to anyone, popular and it's f…

> Consider if you upload a book to Amazon to sell they are taking anywhere from 30% to 65% of the sale.

What about Barnes & Nobles? What about your local library? The difference is competition/choice.

I'm not even arguing about the 30% on the shop or even the existence of fees. Fees makes sense if they add something. They are well in their rights and it's fine that they do it in the app store.

What I'm arguing about is forcing them to use that as payment gateway IN the app. That's not value added, VISA does it for 2.5% (and less) already, Paypal too. That means that they directly remove choice to gains from you.

Buy a magazine over Amazon and see if inside there's an offer to subscribe using others means. Go on Uber on Android and check if you are forced to use Google Wallet.

> Apple probably gets called out the most because it's open to anyone, popular and it's fees are transparent but it's really the same across most digital platforms.

You are not calling out others, you didn't even named one in your comment. You are justifying their fees by the competition that does similar fees. You may want to change how you formulate your comment if your goal is really to call them out.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#224

Post by banachtarski »

scarface74 wrote: post #206
banachtarski wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm telling you the difference between a console (or embedded platform) versus a general computing device. There is a blurry line to be sure, but the smartphone and a gaming console are clearly on opposite sides of the line. Consoles have dedicated hardware for antialiasing, texture streaming, etc.

And iPhones have dedicated hardware for cellular, video decoding, decryption, a dedicated GPU, motion detection, face detection, etc....

Are you implementing code for them? Virtually every computing device available (your desktop included) is an SoC.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#225

Post by throwawaycert »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #221
throwawaycert wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iOS allows JITs. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You're using bad or outdated second or third-hand info with no regard for the game of telephone involved in getting it to you, nor the anti-Apple zealots obfuscating the truth on its way.

Are you sure? I admittedly can't find a definitive source on this now, so perhaps the restriction is more nuanced than I realized. What I do know is: if you try to use more intensive emulators like PPSSPP on a non-Jailbroken iOS device (via a developer account, enterprise cert, or similar), you will not get acceptable performance, because the emulator is forced to fall back into an interpreter mode. Even on Jailbroke…

The only JIT “restriction” is App Store policy. No downloaded code is allowed unless it’s JavaScript (and runs, as it happens, on one of the JITs iOS has built in). This is policy, not technical limits. You can even install a Python environment and code in it. And, as it happens, write code that downloads other code to be evaluated. Because you did it on your device with full knowledge. Not the developer who put it in the App Store.

I’m not even going to try and address whatever weird issues a console emulator might have, those always have problems being ported to non-x86 platforms, especially when they include a JIT. As it happens, dynamic recompilation of machine code not designed for that purpose can be pretty damn hard. Take a look at the posts the Dolphin emulator team make about the fun they encounter.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#226

Post by Wowfunhappy »

throwawaycert wrote: post #225
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure? I admittedly can't find a definitive source on this now, so perhaps the restriction is more nuanced than I realized. What I do know is: if you try to use more intensive emulators like PPSSPP on a non-Jailbroken iOS device (via a developer account, enterprise cert, or similar), you will not get acceptable performance, because the emulator is forced to fall back into an interpreter mode. Even on Jailbroke…

The only JIT “restriction” is App Store policy. No downloaded code is allowed unless it’s JavaScript (and runs, as it happens, on one of the JITs iOS has built in). This is policy, not technical limits. You can even install a Python environment and code in it. And, as it happens, write code that downloads other code to be evaluated. Because you did it on your device with full knowledge. Not the developer who put it i…

> I’m not even going to try and address whatever weird issues a console emulator might have, those always have problems being ported to non-x86 platforms, especially when they include a JIT. As it happens, dynamic recompilation of machine code not designed for that purpose can be pretty damn hard. Take a look at the posts the Dolphin emulator team make about the fun they encounter.

This isn't that! The JIT works when you remove iOS's sandbox (by Jaibreaking). And this applies to every iOS console emulator.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#227

Post by throwawaycert »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #226
throwawaycert wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only JIT “restriction” is App Store policy. No downloaded code is allowed unless it’s JavaScript (and runs, as it happens, on one of the JITs iOS has built in). This is policy, not technical limits. You can even install a Python environment and code in it. And, as it happens, write code that downloads other code to be evaluated. Because you did it on your device with full knowledge. Not the developer who put it i…

> I’m not even going to try and address whatever weird issues a console emulator might have, those always have problems being ported to non-x86 platforms, especially when they include a JIT. As it happens, dynamic recompilation of machine code not designed for that purpose can be pretty damn hard. Take a look at the posts the Dolphin emulator team make about the fun they encounter. This isn't that! The JIT works when…

Oh, that's right, it's because iOS normally doesn't allow dynamic code modification in memory. That's not an iOS specific thing at all, Apple is just one of the few companies willing to make that nod to security.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#228

Post by aocenas »

tasuki wrote: post #181
collyw wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does "open in a private window" work?

Yes, but, why should I have to do that? I'm not even angry at Medium, business do what business have to do. But why do people willingly post their content on Medium where it gets walled? To begin with, there's WordPress - and countless other alternatives.

I think you need to opt in for your article to be behind paywall and if you do that you get some share from that. So it is basically people wanting to make money from what they write.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#229

Post by scarface74 »

banachtarski wrote: post #224
scarface74 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And iPhones have dedicated hardware for cellular, video decoding, decryption, a dedicated GPU, motion detection, face detection, etc....

Are you implementing code for them? Virtually every computing device available (your desktop included) is an SoC.

Yes there are APIs targeting the GPU, the Mx coprocessor, the hardware decoder (https://developer.apple.com/documentation/videotoolbox), etc.

But why is that relevant to how one is a general purpose computer and the other isn’t?

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#230

Post by tasuki »

aocenas wrote: post #228
tasuki wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but, why should I have to do that? I'm not even angry at Medium, business do what business have to do. But why do people willingly post their content on Medium where it gets walled? To begin with, there's WordPress - and countless other alternatives.

I think you need to opt in for your article to be behind paywall and if you do that you get some share from that. So it is basically people wanting to make money from what they write.

Ah ok, so everyone is being rational - that's awesome to hear, thanks! :)
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