Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

triplebyte.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 408 posts

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#221

Post by enraged_camel »

davidw wrote: post #188
git-pull wrote: post #183

Don't give coding quizzes if they can provide better evidence of their ability. It's unfair in the least, rude at the worst to pigeon-hole "senior" programmers into scenarios / pop quizzes. Let them show off recent personal projects. They'll probably have no problem spending a weekend hacking on something they're passionate about. Be a serious employer: Convince the best programmers (whatever that means) why they sho…

None of these things are perfect - I agree with you about quizzes and the like. > Let them show off recent personal projects. They'll probably have no problem spending a weekend hacking on something they're passionate about. Nope. Not spending my weekend fooling around to impress some potential employer. I'm going to spend it with my kids, riding my bike, and enjoying life.

>> Nope. Not spending my weekend fooling around to impress some potential employer. I'm going to spend it with my kids, riding my bike, and enjoying life.

Okay, it is time for some harsh love. You won't like it, and I'll get downvotes, but whatever. It needs to be said.

My parents are both doctors, and they are in their 60s now. And you know what? They still work their asses off, on many evenings and weekends, trying to stay up-to-date with new developments in their respective fields. My dad just got back from an ophthalmology conference in Europe. My mom is a guest speaker at a pathology conference and she has been preparing furiously. And it has been like this _all my life_.

So yeah, I detest this sense of entitlement that programmers have, where they want to a) get paid a lot and b) have lots of free time on the side. How about this instead: if you want to have a high salary, then it is reasonable for people to expect you to make certain sacrifices, such as work on your own projects on the side experimenting with new technologies and ideas. Don't like it? Well, it may be time to pick another profession...

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#222

Post by meowface »

xtracto wrote: post #154
chrissnell wrote: post #125

It's a little peculiar how this blog post really pushes the inclusiveness angle despite the numbers showing clearly that it is not a big priority for prospective employees. They even go as far as highlighting that the sampled women want inclusiveness 171% more than the sampled men, which sounds pretty strong, but hides the real story when you look at the _actual numbers_. Only 15% of women ranked inclusion as a top p…

It is because it is SEO spam. TripleByte regularly posts these here in HackerNews to promote their hiring platform. People seem to like it nonetheless

It is SEO spam, and TripleByte does seem to use a lot of "growth hacks" or something, because I see their ads on pretty much any platform that I see ads for (like on mobile apps, where I don't have any easy-to-use ad blockers), and they're mentioned on HN at a surprisingly high rate.

But (I think?) I've seen people here genuinely recommend them, and I also don't think YC would work with and promote a company they didn't like or trust. Companies' marketing and sales teams can sometimes have a very different vibe and sense of ethics compared to the rest of the company.

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#223

Post by aantix »

git-pull wrote: post #183

Don't give coding quizzes if they can provide better evidence of their ability. It's unfair in the least, rude at the worst to pigeon-hole "senior" programmers into scenarios / pop quizzes. Let them show off recent personal projects. They'll probably have no problem spending a weekend hacking on something they're passionate about. Be a serious employer: Convince the best programmers (whatever that means) why they sho…

Union?

If you’re one of the best, why would you want to be equalized with your peers?

No way I would want this. Why is it my problem that some introverted programmer can’t get themselves together enough to throw together a portfolio, some OSS contributions and ask for what they’re worth?

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#224

Post by remote_phone »

mjevans wrote: post #213
Benjammer wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did she take a job as a tester if she was a CS grad with developer aspirations?

In the OLD days that's how things worked. You got in to a company through the mail room or some other 'get to know the staff' position, then applied for better jobs in the company. Internal hires would typically be tried before looking outside since they'd have a track record that someone wasn't a flake.

I’m an old guy. That’s almost never how it worked. QA was always pigeon holed as QA and rarely considered dev material.

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#225

Post by Hermitian909 »

vmateixeira wrote: post #176
jonny_eh wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no shortage of ideas, especially within a company. If you want your ideas to win out, you should take advantage of what you do best… making things. If you combine your idea pitch with a working prototype (doesn't need to be polished), it's odds of getting adopted will be far more likely. If your idea isn't one that can be prototyped, e.g. "Ask Microsoft for a billion dollars", then you may as well just pitch…

Just out of curiosity, when would you think these prototypes should be best built? Surely not on my free time, right? If the company is not interested on listening to new ideas, and you're keen on participating in something you would like to help build, then perhaps this is not the right company for you.

Maybe on your free time, yes.

But only if you think it will demonstrate enough value to get you something you desire: cool work, a promotion, etc.

This requires a good understanding of what your managers and the larger organization will value, and whether they reward people who show they can deliver on those items. People's careers _do_ get bumped from these kinds of efforts, but I've seen a lot of engineers spend 40 hours prototyping something that management just won't value.

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#226

Post by 40acres »

aantix wrote: post #223
git-pull wrote: post #183

Don't give coding quizzes if they can provide better evidence of their ability. It's unfair in the least, rude at the worst to pigeon-hole "senior" programmers into scenarios / pop quizzes. Let them show off recent personal projects. They'll probably have no problem spending a weekend hacking on something they're passionate about. Be a serious employer: Convince the best programmers (whatever that means) why they sho…

Union? If you’re one of the best, why would you want to be equalized with your peers? No way I would want this. Why is it my problem that some introverted programmer can’t get themselves together enough to throw together a portfolio, some OSS contributions and ask for what they’re worth?

A major issue with the labor movement in America is that folks only join a union when they are weak and/or threatened by bosses.

The best time to negotiate is when you're strong, it amazes me that big tech was caught colluding to depress wages and nothing occurred in terms of a labor movement.

Many industry wide issues could be addressed through collective bargaining: age discrimination, training material, a strong voice to counter tiered voting shares (cough Facebook), guaranteed ergonomic tools, the list goes on.

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#227

Post by chrismatheson »

enraged_camel wrote: post #221
davidw wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of these things are perfect - I agree with you about quizzes and the like. > Let them show off recent personal projects. They'll probably have no problem spending a weekend hacking on something they're passionate about. Nope. Not spending my weekend fooling around to impress some potential employer. I'm going to spend it with my kids, riding my bike, and enjoying life.

>> Nope. Not spending my weekend fooling around to impress some potential employer. I'm going to spend it with my kids, riding my bike, and enjoying life. Okay, it is time for some harsh love. You won't like it, and I'll get downvotes, but whatever. It needs to be said. My parents are both doctors, and they are in their 60s now. And you know what? They still work their asses off, on many evenings and weekends, trying…

Technology’s main usage/promise is to make us all more efficient and rid us of the dependency on pure time & effort for outcomes. It’s like the definition of work smart not hard.

Personally I think this is why you see a ton of people who live and breath tech think in terms of low time, high impact.

High impact should equal high compensation.

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#228

Post by themarkn »

enraged_camel wrote: post #221
davidw wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of these things are perfect - I agree with you about quizzes and the like. > Let them show off recent personal projects. They'll probably have no problem spending a weekend hacking on something they're passionate about. Nope. Not spending my weekend fooling around to impress some potential employer. I'm going to spend it with my kids, riding my bike, and enjoying life.

>> Nope. Not spending my weekend fooling around to impress some potential employer. I'm going to spend it with my kids, riding my bike, and enjoying life. Okay, it is time for some harsh love. You won't like it, and I'll get downvotes, but whatever. It needs to be said. My parents are both doctors, and they are in their 60s now. And you know what? They still work their asses off, on many evenings and weekends, trying…

I’m not sure that the lesson to be learned from the medical profession’s overburdening of its professionals is that other well paid industries should follow suit and overburden their own professionals.

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#229

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

enraged_camel wrote: post #221
davidw wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of these things are perfect - I agree with you about quizzes and the like. > Let them show off recent personal projects. They'll probably have no problem spending a weekend hacking on something they're passionate about. Nope. Not spending my weekend fooling around to impress some potential employer. I'm going to spend it with my kids, riding my bike, and enjoying life.

>> Nope. Not spending my weekend fooling around to impress some potential employer. I'm going to spend it with my kids, riding my bike, and enjoying life. Okay, it is time for some harsh love. You won't like it, and I'll get downvotes, but whatever. It needs to be said. My parents are both doctors, and they are in their 60s now. And you know what? They still work their asses off, on many evenings and weekends, trying…

I'm going to add my thoughts in agreement, mainly because I see the following sentiments fairly commonly:

1. "Coding quizzes" are arbitrary and unfair in a technical interview!

2. Take home projects as part of the interview process are unfair because I've got a busy life!

3. No, I don't have lots of side projects to show because I've been working for the past 15 years and all the IP I've worked on is owned by my current/prior employers.

To add to your harshness, if all those three things above are true, (a) maybe you're not as good a developer as you think you are, and (b) as someone who has done a lot of hiring, I am certainly able to find folks who will (pretty enthusiastically, I'd add) fulfill at least one of those tasks (i.e. in-person coding questions, take home problem, or extensive existing personal projects/open source), even in today's competitive market.

Re: Want to hire the best programmers? Offer growth

#230

Post by pjmlp »

aantix wrote: post #223
git-pull wrote: post #183

Don't give coding quizzes if they can provide better evidence of their ability. It's unfair in the least, rude at the worst to pigeon-hole "senior" programmers into scenarios / pop quizzes. Let them show off recent personal projects. They'll probably have no problem spending a weekend hacking on something they're passionate about. Be a serious employer: Convince the best programmers (whatever that means) why they sho…

Union? If you’re one of the best, why would you want to be equalized with your peers? No way I would want this. Why is it my problem that some introverted programmer can’t get themselves together enough to throw together a portfolio, some OSS contributions and ask for what they’re worth?

Because outside US, unions are not about only salaries, rather about being treated as human being while at work.

And it may be surprising to US mentality, that they are for all people on the company, from the janitor to the 10x coder that is now recovering from an accident, instead of trying to sue someone to get some income back.

Post reply on HN