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Libra, 2 Weeks In

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Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#221

Post by baq »

sametmax wrote: post #212
Lucadg wrote: post #127

This is the part where they reveal how they plan to negotiate with regulators: "At the core, we believe that a network that helps move more cash transactions — where a lot of illicit activities happen — to a digital network that features regulated on and off ramps with proper know-your-customer (KYC) practices, combined with the ability for law enforcement and regulators to conduct their own analysis of on-chain acti…

Not just privacy. Democracy in general. No cash mean you can't do anything that has not been validated by the state first. It means kids will have less options to foul around without the parents checking it. It means you won't be able to pay in a gay bar anonymously. It means any new (and hence controversial) political concept will have no way to financially grow to acceptance. It means no living off the grid. It mea…

in other news, wechat pay has 900M users monthly.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#222

Post by pjc50 »

wickoff wrote: post #207
pjc50 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't follow this line of argument? I already keep my investments in a UK tax-sheltered savings account invested in US securities, and my credit and debit cards work for buying things in dollars, but most of my spending is in GBP. I could have a Euro-denominated bank account if I wanted. How much more "seamless" would I want?

Then you're a part of tiny minority who both has access to these tools and figured out that this is the proper way to manage your money. Exactly zero people I personally know manage their money that way. Libra does next to nothing for you.

Doesn't the fact that zero people you know manage their money this way also imply that Libra does nothing for them in this regard?

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#223

Post by gerikson »

wickoff wrote: post #198
gerikson wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These countries can simply ask Facebook/Calibra to not offer their wallet, or to require FB to disable the wallet functionality. Or they can ban Facebook.

Have you read the linked article? The protocol is open, anybody can build a wallet and transact p2p without KYC with a pseudonymous account. If they get the initial market penetration through WhatsApp/Facebook then it'll be as difficult to ban as Bitcoin. Facebook alone wouldn't have the means to stop those transactions even if they wanted to, this is not PayPal. Considering that most of those have countries have tro…

> The protocol is open, anybody can build a wallet and transact p2p without KYC with a pseudonymous account.

The protocol may be open, but the permissioning participants are (as of writing) large multinational corporations. If a country tells them that they have credible reasons to believe Libra is being used for money laundering, tax evasion, or gasp funding terrorism, they will be more than happy to close those channels down.

From the article, we also have this quote (h/t 'Lucadg)

> At the core, we believe that a network that helps move more cash transactions — where a lot of illicit activities happen — to a digital network that features regulated on and off ramps with proper know-your-customer (KYC) practices, combined with the ability for law enforcement and regulators to conduct their own analysis of on-chain activity, will be a big opportunity to increase the efficacy of financial crimes monitoring and enforcement.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#224

Post by moksly »

mrweasel wrote: post #129
moksly wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have an app called mobile pay in Denmark, which I guess is similar to Apple Pay in that you link a credit card and it lets you send money to friends or pay for stuff. It’s owned by our banks and it works most places a credit card wouldn’t, like in small stores that can’t really afford to have a credit card terminal. That’s it’s main uses, sending money to friends or buying things. Only they also have an API for th…

> like in small stores that can’t really afford to have a credit card terminal Remember that most of those small stores are able to do this by breaking the terms of service. Accepting MobilePay is NOT free for business, it's not even cheap. As a customers is pretty easy to spot, if the stores MobilePay number is just their phone number, they're breaking the terms of service, and you should pay cash.

Are you sure it’s “most”? I can’t remember the last time I had to pay into someone’s private account instead of one of the correct ways to do it.

I never said it was free, but depending on the service you want, it is significantly cheaper than having a credit card terminal. One of the reasons it’s cheap is because it tells your bank about everything you buy. We worry about social media, but it’s the banks that know what brand of hemorrhoid medicine I purchased last week.

I’m not advocating either solutions, by the way. I’m just pointing out a use case. I mean, I care enough about privacy to not use google or Facebook, and I still use mobile pay because it’s really, really convenient.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#225

Post by blub »

baq wrote: post #221
sametmax wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just privacy. Democracy in general. No cash mean you can't do anything that has not been validated by the state first. It means kids will have less options to foul around without the parents checking it. It means you won't be able to pay in a gay bar anonymously. It means any new (and hence controversial) political concept will have no way to financially grow to acceptance. It means no living off the grid. It mea…

in other news, wechat pay has 900M users monthly.

In the same news China is an autocratic regime to be feared and avoided, not emulated.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#227

Post by api »

sametmax wrote: post #212
Lucadg wrote: post #127

This is the part where they reveal how they plan to negotiate with regulators: "At the core, we believe that a network that helps move more cash transactions — where a lot of illicit activities happen — to a digital network that features regulated on and off ramps with proper know-your-customer (KYC) practices, combined with the ability for law enforcement and regulators to conduct their own analysis of on-chain acti…

Not just privacy. Democracy in general. No cash mean you can't do anything that has not been validated by the state first. It means kids will have less options to foul around without the parents checking it. It means you won't be able to pay in a gay bar anonymously. It means any new (and hence controversial) political concept will have no way to financially grow to acceptance. It means no living off the grid. It mea…

There has never in all of history been totalitarianism like what is possible now. We are building the technical infrastructure for our own total enslavement.

Of course it makes me wonder if this is just history repeating in some sense. People came to the new world in part to flee European monarchist tyrannies. Now people will go to space to flee the Earth technocracy.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#228

Post by erfgh »

Lucadg wrote: post #156
H8crilA wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to defend them, but this is exactly what happens to all non cash transactions. Which you kind of have to do to with any sizeable quantity of money (say over 100k) for practical reasons, like theft.

True. This is exactly the problem with non cash transactions. Every single transaction, no matter how small, is recorded forever and shared with several governments and secret services. I never signed up for this. This is why we need cash and why they are fighting it.

The reason they are fighting it is because cash transactions are mostly transactions which will not be reported for taxes. When Greece implemented capital controls in 2015 the country's tax income skyrocketed because everyone started using debit cards.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#229

Post by swift532 »

api wrote: post #227
sametmax wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just privacy. Democracy in general. No cash mean you can't do anything that has not been validated by the state first. It means kids will have less options to foul around without the parents checking it. It means you won't be able to pay in a gay bar anonymously. It means any new (and hence controversial) political concept will have no way to financially grow to acceptance. It means no living off the grid. It mea…

There has never in all of history been totalitarianism like what is possible now. We are building the technical infrastructure for our own total enslavement. Of course it makes me wonder if this is just history repeating in some sense. People came to the new world in part to flee European monarchist tyrannies. Now people will go to space to flee the Earth technocracy.

Only it's a bit easier and cheaper (en masse) to go to the New World instead of space which will likely be quite exclusive.
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