Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

COI – Chat Over IMAP

coi-dev.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 259 posts

Re: COI – Chat Over IMAP

#221

Post by Dylan16807 »

Moru wrote: post #98
ppjet6 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jeremie Miller, 1999: > "Jabber is a new project I recently started to create a complete open-source platform for Instant Messaging with transparent communication to other IM systems(ICQ, AIM, etc). Matthew Hodgson, 2019: > I think they missed the the bit where Matrix is called Matrix because it bridges (matrixes) the existing networks (Slack, IRC, Telegram, Discord, XMPP, etc) in, rather than needing to convince eve…

https://xkcd.com/927/

That's not how interconnects work. You don't even have to connect to Matrix, you can just use it to link existing systems more easily. Pretend there is no protocol/standard and it still does a good job.

Re: COI – Chat Over IMAP

#222

Post by elvecinodeabajo »

richardwhiuk wrote: post #131
deadbunny wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which solves nothing if the other party's email is provided by Google. Google is still getting your chats.

XMPP and Matrix other people can host their servers on Google as well. Fundamentally, if you don't trust the decisions of the person you are talking with, you can't guarantee the privacy of your chats.

You're forgetting E2E encryption.

Re: COI – Chat Over IMAP

#223

Post by Dylan16807 »

Arnt wrote: post #82
devit wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can just search on the client after decrypting.

Oh, sure. Just download all of the messages. The problem with that is that you run into users like me, who have 25 years of archived email, a mobile phone, and who travel abroad.

If you exclude attachments, how many GB is that?

And when it comes to a chat client, it's not a big deal to pick which chat to search, vastly reducing the amount of data you need.

Re: COI – Chat Over IMAP

#224

Post by themacguffinman »

ndnxhs wrote: post #206
LMMojo wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't ever remember being 'stuck' with GNU Hurd. It was a "non-product" with a little more evidence of progress than Duke Nukem Forever. Back in those days, I used SunOS (later Solaris), HP-UX, DEC Ultrix, IBM AIX, Tandem Guardian and SGI Irix.

The point is no one would try to make Linux because someone already tried hurd

The more likely outcome is that GNU Hurd would be developed to be similar to Linux if Linus chose to stick with existing projects instead.

Linux had real improvements over Hurd but it'd be silly to suggest that a separate "Linux" brand kernel needed to exist to make those improvements possible.

Re: COI – Chat Over IMAP

#225

Post by newscracker »

petre wrote: post #171
the_librarian wrote: post #118

Hey everyone. I don't want to start a debate or anything, I'm just looking for a privacy concerned chat service that I can easily teach my fiance to sign up for and use. She gave up on Pidgin, and I would appreciate any pros/cons for your favorite service of this kind. Thank you in advance!

We use Wire. In some respects it's more useful than Signal, because it works on mobile, desktop and web. I think the desktop clients are Electron based, so I use the mobile and the web apps. You don't necessarily need a phone number, it can also use an e-mail address, so it works just fine on the desktop. It also has voice chat and conference. Oh and a good part of it is open source, although it's uses a centralized…

I second the Wire recommendation because you can sign up with an email address, and conversations sync across devices. Its feature set is also good (not as good as Telegram) and improving. I wouldn’t recommend Signal as it is still poor in features, speed and stability.

With Signal you cannot carry your chats to a new device (this is prohibited by design in the app on iOS)!

If you want to experiment, try both Wire and Signal at the same time, and you’d observe the differences quickly.

Re: COI – Chat Over IMAP

#226

Post by mst »

lima wrote: post #41
Arathorn wrote: post #29

> With XMPP and Matrix.org -based services you would still need to convince everyone to join your new network. Easy in theory, very complex in practice! I think they missed the the bit where Matrix is called Matrix because it bridges (matrixes) the existing networks (Slack, IRC, Telegram, Discord, XMPP, etc) in, rather than needing to convince everyone to join. But no matter, we'll just provide a COI bridge if this t…

In reality, those bridges work badly and hardly anyone uses them. I had to give up on my attempt at using Matrix as IRC client - it had questionable uptime and some channels even banned Matrix users due to frequent reconnects (on Freenode). Hackint recently shut down their Matrix bridge due to how maintenance-intensive it was (and the fact that it logged all messages in its own database). It's great in theory but imp…

Speaking in my personal capacity but as somebody's who's a freenode oper:

The ridiculous crashing every few minutes thing of the IRC bridge has been fixed enough I haven't noticed a problem for quite a while.

I have a looooot of disagreements with matrix, which I have discussed and will discuss with them, but honestly they're not doing it completely wrong anymore.

Re: COI – Chat Over IMAP

#228

Post by cerberusss »

m0dest wrote: post #133

This is super clever, and I hope this takes off. At the same time, I have to worry: SMTP is forever, but I'm not so sure that IMAP is forever. Email is increasingly becoming a fragmented oligopoly, and the major players are promoting their own alternative protocols. IMAP is becoming a very optional legacy feature. If the success of this project required additional integrations with EAS and Google's mail APIs, would y…

> SMTP is forever, but I'm not so sure that IMAP is forever

Indeed. I was surprised to see that Tutanota, a German privacy-oriented e-mail provider, only provides access via their web front-end. They don't support IMAP because according to them, they couldn't provide end-to-end encryption in combination with full-text search.

Re: COI – Chat Over IMAP

#229

Post by chrismorgan »

rafbuff wrote: post #160
Mailtemi wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chat over IMAP seem a bit misleading title. Their proposition is to add additional info in MIME headers. Or later some of them like Message-Id with chat info. So seem more related to MIME and SMTP. A client app can get those headers with different protocols too. MAPI, EWS, JMAP, etc.

Chat over SMTP/IMAP/MIME just doesn't sound right, or does it? We also thought of Chat over Email, or Chat over Mail, But Chat over IMAP gave us the COI (fish), which we love. Decision made :)

Chat over Email is so much clearer as a name.

Re: COI – Chat Over IMAP

#230

Post by Proven »

lima wrote: post #41
Arathorn wrote: post #29

> With XMPP and Matrix.org -based services you would still need to convince everyone to join your new network. Easy in theory, very complex in practice! I think they missed the the bit where Matrix is called Matrix because it bridges (matrixes) the existing networks (Slack, IRC, Telegram, Discord, XMPP, etc) in, rather than needing to convince everyone to join. But no matter, we'll just provide a COI bridge if this t…

In reality, those bridges work badly and hardly anyone uses them. I had to give up on my attempt at using Matrix as IRC client - it had questionable uptime and some channels even banned Matrix users due to frequent reconnects (on Freenode). Hackint recently shut down their Matrix bridge due to how maintenance-intensive it was (and the fact that it logged all messages in its own database). It's great in theory but imp…

I was going to comment how this French idea with hundreds of non-expert users maintaining and operating Matrix servers seems unrealistic.

The software itself may be secure and configurable but instances of such service, especially if operated by government hacks, may not be.

100s of ObamaCare portals with 0.01% of the budget. Yeah that will go well.

Post reply on HN