Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#221

Post by scarface74 » Thu, Jan 24, 2019, 12:21 PM UTC

mrweasel wrote: post #185

millstone wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really not that confusing. Routers, discrete monitors, or cars are not core to Apple's existing businesses. But of the three, only cars represent a market large enough to be worth pursuing. So that's where Apple invests and attempts to develop competency.

It's hard to see them making any money on cars anytime soon. Autonomous cars are at least 20 years away. Profit margins on cars isn't even close to that of an iPhone. Also it would be entering an entirely new field of business that not only require the R&D to make the car, they also need the infrastructure to handle sales and repairs. Apple does have the money to pull it off, if they want to. I would just question if…

“We’ve learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone, PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They’re not going to just walk in.”

Former CEO of Palm.

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#222

Post by minikites » Thu, Jan 24, 2019, 12:22 PM UTC

bunnycorn wrote: post #203

pentae wrote: post #6

When you can't make a laptop with reliable screens or keyboards, or an iMac lineup that has CPU's 2 generations behind.. Maybe it's time to shut down the stupid vanity projects and focus on your core business instead?

Ohhh, that hate... Apple is the most reliable computer manufacturer of all, according to ConsumerReports actual statistics. Now according to BS fake news that is paid by Apple competition, yes, there are lots of problems with Apple computers (like 3 or 5 people that complained on Twitter), and nothing with Apple competitive products ever (unless it's a widespread recall like with Samsung...) Also, what's your problem…

Reliability? They can't make a laptop keyboard that survives an encounter with a crumb and if you open your laptop too many times the video cable gets severed: https://ifixit.org/blog/12903/

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#223

Post by maxxxxx » Thu, Jan 24, 2019, 12:23 PM UTC

iamgopal wrote: post #141

no1youknowz wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article is a bit sketchy, but serves my point-ish. They say Volvo is going to release a true self-driving car by 2021. But then it goes on to mention level 4. Let's pull it back a little and say by 2021, they release level 4. If any automaker is going to do Level 5 in the snow. It's going to be Volvo. Being a Swedish company (albeit owned by a Chinese firm now), they have a particular track record when it comes…

How in the world a car company can attract ( let alone provide environment or infrastructure etc ) sufficient software talent to achieve this ?

How does NASA attract software talent? Not all smart people are in silicon valley selling ads or spying on people.

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#224

Post by dmingod666 » Thu, Jan 24, 2019, 12:23 PM UTC

blub wrote: post #195

adrianN wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sensors on humans don't work well in snow or rain either. That doesn't stop us from driving.

Have some faith in your sensors. The point is they enable us to drive better than anything man made. It's always a sad spectacle watching AI fans disparage humans when one looks at the miserable results of the various self-driving efforts. They should at least wait until they have something working decently.

Humans are so smart that they can't be modeled by AI. Humans are so dumb that they can't even design a system that does the same things that they do :)

I find it amusing that AI vs Human is actually 'A group of humans working on a technology' vs Humans. If we say AI sucks it actual that we probably aren't good at making certain type of software. Its funny when we talk about AI like it has some Sentience -- when all the onus on improving it and why it sucks is because of humans. Guess someone should start a 'AI shaming' hashtag! :D

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#225

Post by lsc » Thu, Jan 24, 2019, 12:23 PM UTC

marcosdumay wrote: post #205

osullip wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? It seems that it is a very easy thing to do. Obviously you need to grant permission to the app to monitor every inbound call, but I am sure that it could be an open source project that is not using that data for anything apart from the stated purpose. I'd pay for the same on Android

FDroid has a very good call blocker. It integrates with everything so you don't even remember it's there. But I didn't try to block calls with no disclosed id. Those disappeared from my view a while ago, so either it does block them by default or something changed on the part of the callers.

yeah, come to think of it, I don't get a lot of blocked ID calls anymore, either. But I do get multiple spam calls a day, which is what I took OP's complaint to mean.

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#226

Post by scarface74 » Thu, Jan 24, 2019, 12:24 PM UTC

boyband6666 wrote: post #32

traek wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you believe the autonomous car project comes at the expense of Mac improvements, rather than being unrelated?

It will still take up senior management and board time. THis is something recognised accross corporate governnce - see recently GSK spinning off it's over consumer health and the counter portfolio of drugs, to focus on what it's core business is; novel pharmaceuticals. Yes you don't want to be a total one trick pony, but if you do everything, you do nothing well.

Yes because the board is knee deep in the design of Mac hardware.

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#227

Post by scarface74 » Thu, Jan 24, 2019, 12:26 PM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #39

culturestate wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What precipice does Apple need to be walked back from? Certainly not the current one, where they rake in an amount of money roughly equal to the GDP of Luxembourg in a single quarter.

Money is a lagging indicator for product quality. When a company's built up a strong brand, it can take years (or sometimes decades - witness Sears and Applebees) of bad experiences or outdated products before it starts to show up in sales numbers. But when it does, it usually ends up cascading rapidly, oftentimes faster than the company can react. Apple started its slide the first time around 1989 - that was when Ma…

Well, to start, as late as 1993, 1994, Apple was either the #1 or #2 computer seller. It was far from struggling until around the time of Windows 95.

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#228

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 24, 2019, 12:31 PM UTC

jsjohnst wrote: post #173

skohan wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know I'm in a massive minority, but I actually prefer the new keyboard (minus the touchbar - that is a joke). What I really miss are the HDMI port and SD card slot.

You’re not in the minority, it’s just the minority who hates the new keyboard also happens to be a vocal contingent here on HN.

[deleted]

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#229

Post by krn » Thu, Jan 24, 2019, 12:32 PM UTC

iamgopal wrote: post #141

no1youknowz wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article is a bit sketchy, but serves my point-ish. They say Volvo is going to release a true self-driving car by 2021. But then it goes on to mention level 4. Let's pull it back a little and say by 2021, they release level 4. If any automaker is going to do Level 5 in the snow. It's going to be Volvo. Being a Swedish company (albeit owned by a Chinese firm now), they have a particular track record when it comes…

How in the world a car company can attract ( let alone provide environment or infrastructure etc ) sufficient software talent to achieve this ?

In most of Europe, software engineers are paid the same as other highly skilled engineers. And Europe has plenty of engineering talent. What it doesn't have, though, is people willing to take and fund bold projects. But building the safest cars in the world[1] is not considered bold at Volvo. That's how they differentiate themselves in the crowded premium car market from Audi, Mercedes-Benz, and BMW.

[1] http://www.thedrive.com/sheetmetal/17546/euro-ncap-volvo-xc6...

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#230

Post by windexh8er » Thu, Jan 24, 2019, 12:34 PM UTC

rubidium wrote: post #210

adrianN wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sensors on humans don't work well in snow or rain either. That doesn't stop us from driving.

They work amazing when properly developed. Growing up in a land with 4-5 months of winter, I was very comfortable in the snow and ice. Still scary as hell at times but the human body is remarkably adaptable to the environment. 30 feet visibility with snow and ice on the roads engages all the senses (except smell). Listening to the sound the tires are making helps know what they’re encountering. Inner ears helping kno…

I also live in a US state where snow is the norm for that amount of time. I would argue "comfortable" is not safe and also, ultimately, not Level 5. There are some situations that are just not passable while maintaining safety. That's the reality and you are making risk choices that are subjective which cannot be understood by the AV. But we shouldn't assume because there will always be situations where a car will refuse to drive because of conditions that it's all for nothing.

I agree that I think it'll get there. But, like air travel there are limits and limits ground flights. When we drive a car we don't have a rigid pre-drive checklist, people in ATC watching out for weather and other aircraft, and then a company behind the scenes making the call on risk of life, money and brand reputation. Sure, weather is probably the hardest to deal with in knowing ahead of time if the trip can be completed with 100% success rate. I think the bigger problem is that as cars start to drive themselves, for people with little drive time throwing those people in the mix to take over will result in a very bad outcome. I have over 20 years of driving in ice and snow and still run across situations that are challenging or catch me off guard. But... What about that 17 year old who's car just told them to take over and they've never had to deal with driving in a storm ever? As we stop the task we lose the skill. Ultimately I feel that's the bigger issue holding things back until the manufacturers can get to Level 5.