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John Giannandrea named to Apple’s executive team

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Re: John Giannandrea named to Apple’s executive team

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a fun experiment, yell RED FIRE TRUCK into your phone then immediately activate Siri manually. With Hey Siri turned on, you will reliably get all three words. With it off, you will usually get Chuck or Truck, or sometimes FIRETRUCK depending on timing. This seems to be for people who start talking before the Siri prompt is fully active like “Set Timer for 5 minutes”. But shows that Apple is typically pre-recordin…

I don’t get anything, just activates Siri normally.

I’m on iphone8 and can get it to happen reliably. Weird.

Re: John Giannandrea named to Apple’s executive team

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do people really use voice commands for, well, anything? Siri plus shortcuts have made many mundane tasks easier. When I get in my car to come home from work I say "Hey Siri, heading home." That causes my phone to text my wife my arrival time and starts the last podcast I had playing. It's a simple thing, but is so much easier than texting and then thumbing through the podcast player to start where I left off. I ha…

I am skeptical when technologists say voice assisted systems will become the dominant interface at least in countries with a high rate of literacy. I just look at TV vs radio, texting versus calling, or audio books versus written content. I believe most studies indicate that people are better at visual comprehension versus auditory: https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/03/140312-audi... I know scientists lov…

More generally, I think the thing you are noticing is that visual and physical items offer random access.

Compare trying to find a specific piece of information in a book, vs in some training DVD.

If I'm just learning how to cook, watching a professional demonstrate the whole thing is going to be very helpful, but if I already know how to cook in general it's easier to flick to the right section of a book and scan the page for the bit of information I need.

Or compare the difference between listening to a phone system's 7 different options vs seeing all the options available on a single screen.

The other side of this is precision. Not only do input methods like a keyboard allow you to give extremely explicit, high information, instructions with no need for interpretation, they also have extremely fast feedback loops. Imagine trying to use your voice to click on a specific part of an image, or draw a circle around it. Far, far easier to move a pointer with your hand, watch where it goes, and then click when it's in the right position.

So visual comprehension probably is better than auditory, but I think the main things that are important are random access, specific and information dense input, and low latency feedback loops on input - all things that we are far better at achieving with physical/visual methods than auditory or speech based methods.

Re: John Giannandrea named to Apple’s executive team

#223
post #122

Lots of comments about improving Siri here. This is interesting to me for several reasons I won't address, but I will ask this: Do people really use voice commands for, well, anything? From a purely functional standpoint, they seem super awkward to me. I like buttons that click and reassure me of every input. I like to feel confident my actions won't be misinterpreted. I like that no one else near me will get weirded…

There's a (perhaps apocryphal) story about Minsky and Engelbart: Minsky proudly proclaimed, "We're going to make machines intelligent! We're going to make them walk and talk! We're going to make them conscious!" Engelbart shot back, "You're going to do that for computers? Well, what are you going to do for people?"

https://books.google.nl/books?id=uNDW_dQ_dlAC&pg=PA167&lpg=P...

Ben Shneiderman's 1993 IEEE Software article, "Beyond Intelligent Machines: Just do it!" was prompted by discussion between Mark Weiser (father of Ubiquitous Computing) and Bill Hefley, and argues that users want a sense of direct and immediate control over computers that differs from how they interact with people.

http://www.cs.umd.edu/hcil/trs/93-03/93-03.html

[...]

WHY NOT INTELLIGENT? I am opposed to labeling computers as "intelligent" for several reasons. First, such a classification limits the imagination. We should have much greater ambition than to make a computer behave like an intelligent butler or other human agent. Computer-supported cooperative work, hypertext/hypermedia, multimedia, information visualization, and virtual reality are powerful technologies that enable human users to accomplish tasks that no human has ever done. If we describe computers in human terms, we run the risk of limiting our ambition and creativity in the design of future computer capabilities. In the same way that most of us have learned to use terminology not specific to any gender, we should now learn not to limit designers of computers with the tag "intelligent" or "smart."

Second, the qualities of predictability and control are desirable. If machines are intelligent or adaptive, they may have less of these qualities. Usability studies at the University of Maryland show that users want the feelings of mastery, competence, and understanding that come from a predictable and controllable interface. Most users seek a sense of accomplishment at the end of the day, not the sense that some intelligent machine magically did their job for them.

Another reason I'm concerned about this label is that it limits or even eliminates human responsibility. I am concerned that if designers are successful in convincing the users that computers are intelligent, then the users will have a reduced sense of responsibility for failures. The tendency to blame the machine is already widespread and I think we will be on dangerous ground if we encourage this trend. As part of my work, I collect newspapers articles about computers, some of which bear the headlines "Victims of Computer Error Go Hungry," "IRS Computers Err on Refund Reports," and "Computers That 'Hear' Taking Jobs" -- all of which seem to absolve human operators by implicating the machine.

Finally, I have a basic philosophical objection to the "intelligent" label. Machines are not people, nor can they ever become so. For me, computers have no more intelligence than a wooden pencil. If you confuse the way you treat machines with the way you treat people, you may end up treating people like machines, which devalues human emotional experiences, creativity, individuality, and relationships of trust. I know that many of my colleagues are quite happy to call machines intelligent and knowledgeable, but I prefer to treat and think about machines in very different ways from the way I treat and think about people.

[...]

+ Natural-language interaction seems clumsy and slow compared to direct manipulation and information-visualization methods that use rapid, high-resolution, color displays with pointing devices. Lotus HAL is gone, Artificial Intelligence Corp.'s Intellect hangs on but is not catching on. Although there are some interesting directions for tools that support human work through natural-language processing (aiding human translators, parsing texts, and generating reports from structured databases) this is different from natural-language interaction.

+ Speech I/O in talking cars and vending machines has not flourished. Voice recognition is fine for handicapped users and special situations, but doesn't seem to be viable for widespread use in office, home, or school settings. Our recent studies suggest that speech I/O has a greater interference with short term and working memory than hand-eye coordination for menu selection by mouse. Voice store and forward, phone-based information retrieval, and voice annotation have great potential but these are not intelligent applications.

[...]

Re: John Giannandrea named to Apple’s executive team

#224
post #122

Lots of comments about improving Siri here. This is interesting to me for several reasons I won't address, but I will ask this: Do people really use voice commands for, well, anything? From a purely functional standpoint, they seem super awkward to me. I like buttons that click and reassure me of every input. I like to feel confident my actions won't be misinterpreted. I like that no one else near me will get weirded…

I never got into voice control. For two reason. If you have a job that does day to day coding, office or paper work and voice are less used, may be speaking a few command doesn't feel that much. If your day to day job is managing dozen of people which involves lots of listening arguing and speaking as well as selling your idea. The last thing I want to do at the end of the day is to speak again to get what I want. I can use the phone and press a few button, it might take a little longer. But it feels much BETTER.

The second is command. I don't want to put Siri in front of every sentences. It is unnatural. If I have a maid, that is not how the conversation would go if I need to get something done. The amount of work ( turning something on or off, or text, or music ) is relatively small compared to the amount of commands I have to give. Or in other words, Giving a command to Siri, ( 4 - 6 words ) is more troublesome than pressing 3 - 4 buttons.

Re: John Giannandrea named to Apple’s executive team

#225
post #16

It's just unbelievable to me that the company sitting on a quarter trillion dollars is unwilling to spend a small fraction of that hoard to hire the best of the best in order to fix the very thing that will kill their cash cow in the next 5 years. I'm on iOS myself (and have been faithful since the first iPhone), but $30 Google Home puck feels like it's from the future. Understands me perfectly, comes up with decent…

For some reason Apple is extremely stringent with their Servers / Cloud Investment. They were late to building their DC, late to owning their CDN ( despite being huge in volume ) Basically Tim Cook has a model that they should not own any "asset". the Asset Light Strategy. Compared to Google which is beating any AI , Deep Learning problems with brute force, and optimise later.

Even their Maps are late, 7 years later since the first apology of Apple Maps they still aren't anywhere close to Google Map.

Re: John Giannandrea named to Apple’s executive team

#226
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but then you try to make the children be playmates, and only 3 might work for a while, 1 might be a jerk that hurts the others; and 5 years down the road, you move anyway, so you only have 1 baby. ^ Sticking to the analogy when it comes to integrating into business; competing products, and which one actually maintains adoption. 9 babies in 9 months is basically what Google has done with its messaging apps.

Off topic question: is there a word or phrase for this conversation? Something to describe arguing about the issue at hand completely through the metaphor and not directly referring to the issue at hand.

Darmoking?

Re: John Giannandrea named to Apple’s executive team

#227
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we trotting out that old trope again? Two words for you: Apple Watch. Nobody is even close to what they did with Watch and what they are doing with health. Look at the camera and photos app: on device ML. Look at the tech behind Memories for instance. They’re doing this without sending your photos to some privacy-invading server. Look at FaceId. Sure Samsung had facial recognition — but it could be fooled with a…

Yes, I couldn't resist. I am sorry, but I have maybe seen 2-3 people wearing an Apple watch and never heard about Memories. Apple watch (and Siri) might be a thing in the US but definitely not in Europe or Asia. I feel like Apple have only 2 successful products: Iphone and Macbook. Their biggest success however is creating a cult and closing personal computer hardware (remember IBM/compatible).

And did closed turn out to be an invalid decision? Closed meant control, control meant more security and privacy and avoiding reliance on advertising revenue.

Re: John Giannandrea named to Apple’s executive team

#228
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I couldn't resist. I am sorry, but I have maybe seen 2-3 people wearing an Apple watch and never heard about Memories. Apple watch (and Siri) might be a thing in the US but definitely not in Europe or Asia. I feel like Apple have only 2 successful products: Iphone and Macbook. Their biggest success however is creating a cult and closing personal computer hardware (remember IBM/compatible).

And did closed turn out to be an invalid decision? Closed meant control, control meant more security and privacy and avoiding reliance on advertising revenue.

Good marketing decision

Re: John Giannandrea named to Apple’s executive team

#230
post #122

Lots of comments about improving Siri here. This is interesting to me for several reasons I won't address, but I will ask this: Do people really use voice commands for, well, anything? From a purely functional standpoint, they seem super awkward to me. I like buttons that click and reassure me of every input. I like to feel confident my actions won't be misinterpreted. I like that no one else near me will get weirded…

I only use it to spell words I don’t know the spelling of. :p

I speak with an accent so it was always hit and miss for me - although it had gotten better in recent years.

I’m also too lazy to talk ...

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