Lime and Bird are growing rapidly • Hacker News Board

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#221

Post by bsder » Tue, Dec 04, 2018, 1:47 AM UTC

whymsicalburito wrote: post #48

oh_sigh wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you live in a low usage area, and scooters that just go back and forth in high usage areas generate far more than $16/day?

That's possible, but with a range of only 15 miles and they're most likely only getting charged at night, that's a max revenue of around $35/day for a scooter. I doubt there's enough scooters maxing out each day to offset the losers.

> That's possible, but with a range of only 15 miles and they're most likely only getting charged at night

I suspect that statement isn't true. I see multiple drops a day on my street.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#222

Post by L_Rahman » Tue, Dec 04, 2018, 1:48 AM UTC

jakevn wrote: post #147

L_Rahman wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Functionally this is the easiest problem in the world to solve. It's the same solution for scooters and dockless bikeshare. Take two parking spots in each block. Put beacons on the corners or some kind of signaling tape around the whole thing. Only let users drop off rides inside that spot. Bonus points for having non-locking racks to help organize. People get to litter their car on the side of my road, often in the…

People keep bringing up this problem because it's still a problem. If it's so easy to solve, why is it not solved? Cities should simply impound any scooter not properly parked and charge $200 to get it back. Since solving the parking problem is so easy, this will push Bird/Lime into finally solving it.

I think the other responses summarize the problem quite accurately. In fact, I alluded to it when I mentioned the littering of cars.

People who park cars believe in an inherent first claim to all roadside space above other users and they are extremely aggressive in their resistance to even the slightest loss.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#223

Post by rocketpastsix » Tue, Dec 04, 2018, 1:49 AM UTC

briandear wrote: post #82

hocuspocus wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

*Pedal. Some EU countries have already announced that scooters will soon be treated similarly to e-bikes, i.e. max 250W and 25km/h for the ones that don't need registration and plates. While more expensive and less portable, a bike is a lot safer and more versatile.

A bike is safer? Definitely need some citations for that. Versatility is debatable. I can fold my scooter and put it under my table at a restaurant or toss it into the trunk of a car. Scooters are also extremely low maintenance: no flat tires, no need to carry a pump or patch kit.

>no flat tires

Ive had plenty of flat tires on scooters. In fact I had two in one day resulting in me finishing my commute to work in the rain. It was great.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#224

Post by L_Rahman » Tue, Dec 04, 2018, 1:50 AM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #109

L_Rahman wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Functionally this is the easiest problem in the world to solve. It's the same solution for scooters and dockless bikeshare. Take two parking spots in each block. Put beacons on the corners or some kind of signaling tape around the whole thing. Only let users drop off rides inside that spot. Bonus points for having non-locking racks to help organize. People get to litter their car on the side of my road, often in the…

Right, this is all part of the process, and I am not saying it is insurmountable. When cars first came around, we had no parking laws. Now we do. We need the parking laws for scooters.

This is a very fair response and I completely agree with you.

In fact, I would argue that part of the negotiation that cities ought to do with Bird and Lime and others like it is to make any deploy conditional on the passage of and adherence to scooter parking laws.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#225

Post by Uehreka » Tue, Dec 04, 2018, 1:50 AM UTC

anonytrary wrote: post #193

Uehreka wrote: post #27

I live in Baltimore and these things have been awesome. Over the summer and early fall, I used them a lot for trips that were between 3-15 blocks. They were usually less than half the price of a Lyft, were fun to drive, don't directly use fossil fuels and were usually available (in one app or the other) within a block or two of my house. I used them to meet friends for brunch, to pick up my car from getting worked on…

> Baltimore used to have a bike share, but I've heard it's being shut down and even when it was up they had a hard time keeping bikes in all the stalls. Sorry if these are stupid questions, but isn't this a problem with Bird? I see random birds all over the place. Can someone explain why bikes can't be left around randomly like a bird can?

Not a stupid question! The bikes in the Baltimore bike share (and I think also the NYC bike share) had electric motors that would work with the rider to make peddling easier. Thus they had to be left in charging “yokes” when you were done with them.

As for why a non-powered bike couldn’t just be left around, here are a few thoughts:

- As some people have mentioned, bikes are just bigger, and take up way more sidewalk space. If Bird and Lime have gotten unpopular, a “Bird for Bikes” would probably make people livid.

- Honestly, the fact that Birds and Limes come with Anti-theft mechanisms and GPS transponders (which run on the same battery as the motor I think) makes them a bit harder to steal (and there aren’t easily removable parts or a viable black market for selling them). Even a non-powered bike would need a charge every once in a while if it relied on power for its transponder.

- I think the “we supply’em, you pay us to ride’em, we pay people to charge’em” business model is just a straight up new thing that happened to be first successfully done by a scooter startup. I imagine it would be hard for a person in a minivan to pick up tons of bikes for charging without having to remove their minivan’s seats. Again, scooters being small is a big advantage, which is probably also why bigger “sit down” vespa-style scooter startups don’t seem to be a factor right now.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#226

Post by ProfessorLayton » Tue, Dec 04, 2018, 1:50 AM UTC

randyrand wrote: post #210

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mind sharing which make/model you purchased? I've been looking at buying one recently, and all the well-reviewed ones seem to be significantly more than $350

Segway ES 1 (highly highly recommend it) For a time they were $300 on amazon. And then I also bought an external battery pack for cheap somewhere else.

Thanks for the recommendation! They're currently $399 on Amazon, however, the scooter seems to have a rating of 3.3/5, which is concerning — with reviewers noting various build quality issues.

Anything with a 4+ rating and enough reviews seems to go for ~800+, which is why I haven't purchased one yet.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#227

Post by surge » Tue, Dec 04, 2018, 1:51 AM UTC

powera wrote: post #4

Translation: we are entering a scooter bubble.

Yep, my town temporarily banned them because of safety issues, I liked the dockless bikes better because they at least had some barrier to entry that anyone who wasn't versed in basic riding safety couldn't just pick one up since most bike riders know the basics.

That said they are cool when used properly, but they're being regulated and towns are starting to charge taxes/fees to make sure they're not a nuisance and require them to leave them in low income areas.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#228

Post by stingrae » Tue, Dec 04, 2018, 1:51 AM UTC

beambot wrote: post #138

cortesoft wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the big issue that most people have with them is the large externality of having scooters littered around the sidewalk. In a lot of places in West Los Angeles, you are having to step around them constantly if you walk down the street. People literally just drop them in the middle of the sidewalk, because there is no incentive for them to not do that. This means that everyone who doesn't use the service has to…

Curious thought: Disincentivize bad behavior. Scooter companies know who the last user was, so they could develop techniques to apply "parking violations." Whether that means GPS-enabled (sufficient resolution?) or crowdsourced (next rider taking picture) doesn't really matter. But this is like the automobile equivalent of a parking ticket.

Skip in SF is sort of doing that. The app makes you take a picture of the scooter in its parking spot when you leave it.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#229

Post by timack » Tue, Dec 04, 2018, 1:52 AM UTC

qudat wrote: post #67

umvi wrote: post #3

Remind me again why they are allowed to litter all the public sidewalks and street corners with their scooters? Regulation hasn't caught up yet?

> litter all the public sidewalks Is it really that big of a nuisance? You literally walk around them, I don't see the issue. You should give them a ride one day to "see what all the fuss is about." They really are an incredible idea and allowing them to be "parked" anywhere is one of its main appeals.

> You literally walk around them, I don't see the issue.

It's not an issue for most people but I live up the road from an old folks home and often see the residents heading to the shops in their mobility scooters. If there's a dumped lime scooter blocking the footpath it completely stops them from using the footpath until someone moves it out of the way for them.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#230

Post by anonytrary » Tue, Dec 04, 2018, 1:53 AM UTC

sonofaplum wrote: post #117

qudat wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People drive them on the sidewalks Where else would they drive them? On the road? They would just contribute to the thousands of cyclists that die or are seriously injured every year. If you are suggesting that every electric vehicle be banned because sidewalks are for pedestrians only then I disagree. Streets are for cars only, don't let these fake bike lanes fool you.

Vehicles that move faster than pedestrians should go on the road, like bicycles do. As a bike rider, its a vastly superior option that going on the sidewalk.

In more developed areas, there are three options. Fast (main road for cars), medium (bike lane) and slow (sidewalks). I'd imagine birds would ride in the medium and slow lanes. They go up to 15 MPH, which is the run-speed of a human. Should runners be on the bike lane? I don't think so.