Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research • Hacker News Board

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#221

Post by adrianN » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 4:09 PM UTC

derangedHorse wrote: post #175

majani wrote: post #110

As an African, I can't help but think that all this charity to Africa might be contributing to us lagging behind in the world. With charities helping out so much, will the local government ever get their act together and provide these functions of public sanitation like they are supposed to? Or will they keep stealing public health funds in the knowledge that charity will always swoop down to save the day? Charities…

We don't know if these systems will get better without external interference either. Another post on this page talks about fixing systematic corruption within African countries as being more helpful, but that's a hard problem also. One solution I could think of is a foreign investor investing a lot of money into the campaign of a candidate who isn't corrupt. The caveat of that solution is the perspective that it woul…

How much does it really help to have a noncorrupt leader of government when a large part of the bureaucracy below them is corrupt? Rooting out corruption is a terribly difficult problem that takes decades.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#222

Post by dmitripopov » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 4:17 PM UTC

About 60% of toilets in Russia are how we call them "free fall toilets". Because everything that goes out has to fly more than 3 meters down the hole. My grand-grandma used "human wastes" to manure her garden each spring and it flourished. I guess it won't work nowadays because you've got to eat healthy food to produce healthy waste. But still... $200M?.. Hmm...

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#223

Post by ianbicking » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 4:17 PM UTC

majani wrote: post #110

As an African, I can't help but think that all this charity to Africa might be contributing to us lagging behind in the world. With charities helping out so much, will the local government ever get their act together and provide these functions of public sanitation like they are supposed to? Or will they keep stealing public health funds in the knowledge that charity will always swoop down to save the day? Charities…

"Charities work with the premise of preventing suffering, but most developed countries can point to a "great suffering" that made them quickly turn their shit around, akin to an addict hitting rock bottom. I would liken charity in Africa to the enabler who always features in morbidly obese people's lives, constantly bringing the person food out of a misplaced sense of love, where perhaps the truly loving thing to do would be to let the person hit rock bottom and change themselves."

Coming back from rock bottom isn't something I would read into the history of developed countries. And I don't know what rock bottom is, it seems like things can get unacceptably bad, and stay that way. Is famine rock bottom? Genocide? Child armies? The hole is too deep, you don't want to go there.

A cycle of incremental improvement from within seems like a better bet. But some of the critique remains: external support does not build up self-directed incremental improvement.

Where in Africa are things going well? Where have people found and created their own prosperity? Their own stable, peaceful civic structures? I entirely believe these places exist! But I have no idea where, because all the discussion is about what's going wrong, and the focus is on where things are the worst. But the answers aren't there. And I think you are right, charity can feed the dysfunction.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#224

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 4:19 PM UTC

chiefalchemist wrote: post #198

docbrown wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I always thought fascinating about Gates was his candid relationship with feces. mindfuplay’s comment reminded me of the famous glass of shit water Gates drank from his Omniprocessor project [0]. But within that 2015 article, Gates mentions a long term plan for seweage and shit[1]: >If we can develop safe, affordable ways to get rid of human waste, we can prevent many of those deaths and help more children…

> "One thing I always thought fascinating about Gates was his candid relationship with feces." I'd say his relationship is with humans. People are his ends. Feces (i.e., the lack there of) are his means. It's a stunning example of hope (not being lost). What's most impressive to me is a $200 million investment over 7 years, has the potential to "return" $200 billion __annually__. The lottery seems to break $200M a co…

[deleted]

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#225

Post by freehunter » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 4:25 PM UTC

knodi123 wrote: post #193

camhenlin wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Septic tank owner here. I own a single family home, maybe larger setups are different. The recommendation from the installer is that it is pumped and inspected every 3-4 years.

The manual for the original Nintendo Entertainment System said "Do not operate continuously for more than 15 minutes." Sometimes legal departments force them to include those recommendations in order to err on the side of "absurdly overcautious." And sometimes the recommendations are merely prudent! I'm not saying you can wait longer, just that installers may have a motivation to exaggerate.

But unlike an NES system, if your septic tank develops a problem you now have liquid and solid waste flooding your yard and home, and your toilets, sinks, and showers are useless until it's fixed.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#226

Post by MrFantastic » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 4:26 PM UTC

jjeaff wrote: post #108

odonnellryan wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you think the poop goes when it gets pumped out? In the sailing community more and more people are using composting toilets: https://farmingmybackyard.com/diy-composting-toilet/ As long as it is disposed of safely (properly composted), the cost here is the composting material.

Most properly sized and installed septic tanks do not ever need to be pumped out. They compost on their own and the excess water seeps out underground.

That makes no sense. What happens to the solid material?

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#227

Post by _uzxp » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 4:26 PM UTC

manav wrote: post #83

I've always wondered why we never really saw toilets in Star Trek. They never really could re-imagine them back then (or now). I have several fully automatic Totos (which have to abide by California/US water usage rules).. and while the bidets, seat heating, and automisting (it sprays water every 15-30 seconds to try to keep the bowl clean) features are nice the water limits and bowl design make it a pain to clean an…

Our imaginations are so limited.

If they have teleportation technology, ...

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#228

Post by gnarbarian » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 4:27 PM UTC

peterwwillis wrote: post #77

gnarbarian wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really all you'd need to do to drastically improve things is get them to simply dig a hole for an outhouse instead of the rampant open defecation seen in India and some parts of Africa. We can solve the more complex and exponentially expensive problems of water treatment later. Digging a deep hole gets rid of rampant cholera and incidental exposure. Basically you've got to learn to crawl before you can run a 10k. edi…

Digging a hole is more challenging than you think. It has to be deep enough, and far enough away from a home, road, water source, food supply, etc. Not all communities have a lot of extra land, so you're talking one or two communal toilets, which need to be large to support a large population, and someone has to maintain them. If you have the land, you have to have money to construct them, as well as labor. Many hous…

>It has to be deep enough, and far enough away from a home, road, water source, food supply, etc. Not all communities have a lot of extra land, so you're talking one or two communal toilets, which need to be large to support a large population, and someone has to maintain them.

Literally any deep hole practically anywhere is a damn sight better than open defecation straight into the river, on the bank, or all over the streets. And it doesn't take an act of congress to fund it and change building codes, a civil engineer, excavator, and team of union laborers to get this stuff done like it does in the west. You just need someone who is personally motivated and determined and a shovel ideally. like this guy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dashrath_Manjhi

All you need is one person who knows that digging a hole would keep his kid from getting sick and dying and you'd have more trouble trying to stop him from digging that hole for an outhouse.

When that clicks for them. That their kid or wife or husband wouldn't have died if they bothered to dig an outhouse, they will be doing the work and telling everyone they know and also nagging people till their ears fell off when they catch someone shitting in the street.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#229

Post by hindsightbias » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 4:28 PM UTC

akarma wrote: post #188

Hendrikto wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Educated people voted for Donald Trump in the USA, for AfD in Germany, for Geert Wilders in the Netherlands, for Duterte in the Philippines, for Bolsonaro in Brazil. Education does not appear to make people less stupid somehow...

Because intelligent people can't vote for Trump, AfD, or Bolsonaro? In the case of the US (assuming you're American): do you actually think that half of our country is stupid ?

Actually, only about half the people vote, so it was 26-27% of voters https://mises.org/wire/26-percent-eligible-voters-voted-trum...

Which I've always more associated with the Crazification Factor than outright stupidity: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Crazification_factor

But it always helps to have Cipolla's Basic Laws of Human Stupidity bookmarked: https://qz.com/967554/the-five-universal-laws-of-human-stupi...

72% of Americans thought invading Iraq was a great idea. https://news.gallup.com/poll/8038/seventytwo-percent-america...

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#230

Post by pbhjpbhj » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 4:32 PM UTC

arusahni wrote: post #152

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allowed as in illegal? Which country, what regulations?

In the USA: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/potty-time/

Which intimates it was allowed but that studio policies, it again intimates, might be responsible. It does say one single TV series never showed a toilet, but only a tank.

Interesting taboo nonetheless.

I always thought it was just not done because it generally isn't moving a story on to show someone on the toilet. Books don't usually mention characters using the toilet either. I've played videogames with an eating mechanic but never one where you needed to defecate (though Sims could when I last played that).