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Where in the World Is Larry Page?

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Re: Where in the World Is Larry Page?

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Senate Intelligence Committee hearings are usually pretty facts-first Granting, for the sake of argument, that SSCI public hearings are on average more substantive and less grandstanding around pre-set narratives than other public Congressional hearings [0], there was ample advance reason to believe that this hearing was not going to further that pattern. > Yeah, some politicians will throw in their jabs, but t…

Do you have any examples? I watch almost all of their public hearings and it's rarely ever grandstanding. Again, you might have a couple of people take quick jabs but if you watch the actual hearings (don't watch reporters take parts of them out of context) it's usually very straight forward and constructive. Part of it is also to function as a communication channel to the people. It shows their constituents that the…

> Do you have any examples? I watch almost all of their public hearings and it's rarely ever grandstanding.

That's true of most committees; the difference that makes SSCI seem better is that non-grandstanding hearings (or moments of hearings) from, say, the Senate Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry have roughly a 0% chance of ever getting coverage from the major media, whereas, due to subject matter, SSCI hearings can be newsworthy without grandstanding (though the grandstanding still gets far disproportionate coverage.)

> Part of it is also to function as a communication channel to the people. It shows their constituents that they're asking the questions people want them to ask and it would give Google's leaders a chance to explain their company-wide position on issues in this case.

If Google needed the opportunity of an SSCI hearing to get any message it (or a client) wanted to virtually any audience of concern, the uncontroversial portion of the premise for inviting them to the hearing would collapse. Page showing up improves the ability of the Senators that have prejudged Google to get media coverage of their grandstanding, but it does nothing for Google's ability to have it's message reach any audience it cares to have it reach. There's no value to Google in voluntarily cooperating in a hearing concerning matters on which so many members of the committee had publicly, explicitly, and in quite immoderate terms prejudged Google and where the terms sent clearly were incompatible with an intent of productive information gathering rather than political scapegoating.

It's, of course, the prerogative of Congress members to use hearings for grandstanding with high value PR target witnesses as props as a means of gesturing to their constituents about their concern on an issue. It's also a very good idea for those high value PR targets to decline to voluntarily cooperate when it is clear that are being invited as punching bags. (It's both good for the punching bags and good for the integrity of the process of government.)

Re: Where in the World Is Larry Page?

#222
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mention this on a somewhat regular basis. Most people know nothing about Sundar while they will bring up Zuck all the time. It's odd how different the two organizations operate at the top.

Sundar isn't a founder and most will forget his name when he moves on if they ever knew. Tim Cook is more well known but will never reach Steve.

wozniak I hope

Re: Where in the World Is Larry Page?

#223
"The European Union fined the company $5.1 billion this summer in an antitrust case over the dominance of Google’s Android mobile operating system."

Damn, that's sloppy reporting. The EU didn't fine Google because of its dominance, rather it was accused of using that dominance in an abusive manner to advance the search/ad business [1].

[1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/google-to-be-fined-5-billion-by...

Re: Where in the World Is Larry Page?

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it was about CA capabilities per se, but the privacy blowback which followed. The issue became mainstream and gave rise to the "Delete Facebook" movement which regular folks as well as celebrities[1] piled onto. It's fair to discuss the faddish nature of the #delete movements, but I don't see any positive angle in it for FB. It also forced FB to overhaul their platform, most notably applying larger rest…

I don't think I agree. This wasn't anything new for most people who knew just a little bit about how FB worked for 3rd parties. What changed was Trump. Had this been Hillary we wouldn't been talking about it at all and I am pretty sure FB wouldn't have been called to the hearing. So I would say it's mostly a media driven thing but of course don't have any final proof. Just pretty sure it wasn't the privacy part that…

I think we're talking past each other a bit.

I responded to someone drawing similarities between Cambridge Analytica and Elon Musk's joint toke, claiming both were examples of "stupid media freakouts" which caused a drop in the stock price of their respective companies.

I think those 2 media events are very different from each other and have very different consequences for their respective companies. I might be proven wrong though if Musk is brought to task in front of a senate committee for his pot-smoking ways.

I agree with you that Trump's election may have made it more likely that Cambridge Analytica became a big deal in the public eye. There's more controversy to fuel media frenzy if the person who got elected is seen to have unjustly ascended the throne.

Re: Where in the World Is Larry Page?

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think that’s actually true though it’s been repeated a lot - people have left without that large of a crash (and in this case it looks like they joined to help with going private so it’s not a huge surprise they left). The fast crashes seem more related to stupid media freak outs - similar to FB and the Cambridge Analytica thing.

I don't think it's reasonable to disregard any meaningful explanation just to keep pushing a baseless assertion. Tesla's finances are a perenial source of concern and if Tesla's chief accounting officer leaves the company in the middle of another row regarding Tesla's financial health, I really doubt a puff is capable of raising more concerns.

I think you underestimate how many market moves are because of stupid overreactions to news events.

Ultimately though the true cause of these moves can't really be known so reasonable people can draw different conclusions.

Re: Where in the World Is Larry Page?

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think that’s actually true though it’s been repeated a lot - people have left without that large of a crash (and in this case it looks like they joined to help with going private so it’s not a huge surprise they left). The fast crashes seem more related to stupid media freak outs - similar to FB and the Cambridge Analytica thing.

I don't see Cambridge Analytica as a "stupid media freak out", it exposed a concerning and far reaching privacy issue with the Facebook platform. Concerns about Tesla's solvency have been building for months. The departure of several high-level executives is a big concern and what moved markets. It might signal that people are jumping ship.

The details of the Cambridge Analytica piece (as I understand them) were that a third party violated the terms of service and grabbed more data than they should have from friends of users that filled out a survey.

Facebook had since restricted access to the API to prevent this terms of service violation a few years ago, but it was after Cambridge Analytica had already engaged in their bad behavior.

The news was largely that a bad actor did a bad thing and FB had already locked down the API to prevent this a couple years ago, though in the news the details around this were mostly incoherent. The market reaction was a massive crash.

It's probably worth Facebook focusing on bad actors more explicitly (which they're doing now with their focus on integrity teams), but the reaction to the CA news was disproportionate - even on HN. The market moves during sensational media stories seem to be an easy place to make money, I think this is where it's similar to the pot smoking CEO overreaction.

Re: Where in the World Is Larry Page?

#227
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Senate Intelligence Committee hearings are usually pretty facts-first unlike the other random hearings and sessions. I watch them on C-SPAN whenever they happen (which isn't that frequent). Edit: I strongly recommend watching these directly from C-SPAN rather than the summarized spin-version from random news companies. You might be surprised how little of their time is wasted on grandstanding. Yeah, some politici…

> The Senate Intelligence Committee hearings are usually pretty facts-first Granting, for the sake of argument, that SSCI public hearings are on average more substantive and less grandstanding around pre-set narratives than other public Congressional hearings [0], there was ample advance reason to believe that this hearing was not going to further that pattern. > Yeah, some politicians will throw in their jabs, but t…

>"It may be a tiny amount of the dialog, but even then it's often the tiny amount that actually is decisive in motivating the hearings, in much the only way that advertising may be a minority of the airtime on commercial TV networks, but it's 100% of the purpose."

That's a completely absurd analogy.

"Throwing jabs" is most certainly not 100% of the purpose. The purpose of making committee hearings public was part of The Legislative Reorganization Act of 1970 as well as an earlier reform effort in the 1940s.[1][2].

These acts mandated that standing committees be open to the public. This was done for transparency, accountability and to keep overly powerful chairmen in check. That is 100% of the purpose. Facts matter.

You are also free to attend open hearings in person, its first come first served. If you don't happen to live in Washington, D.C. however public access is by televising these.

I posted a link above last weeks hearing in its' entirety. Please point out the "jabs" and "grandstanding."

[1] https://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/briefing...

[2] https://lahood.house.gov/sites/lahood.house.gov/files/brief_...

Re: Where in the World Is Larry Page?

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the domain of information warfare and propaganda campaigns public awareness and attention is a large part of the counter strategy. So even if it were just to attract eyeballs to the issue that doesn't mean it was a "show trial". If you watch these Intelligence Committee hearings I think you'll find them to be focused on strategy, partnerships, and actions rather than some form of "trial".

Then they should have invited the actual experts on the topic at these companies. Google, again, says they offered someone to speak and were told it could only be Page. What if they told Facebook it could only be Mark and not Sheryl? Either way, if they actually wanted the CEO of Google, that happens to be Sundar Pichai, not Larry Page (he's the CEO of the holding company).

I was under the understanding that they asked for either Page or Pichai.

And Google basically responded with "it's either our legal team or nothing".

Re: Where in the World Is Larry Page?

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any examples? I watch almost all of their public hearings and it's rarely ever grandstanding. Again, you might have a couple of people take quick jabs but if you watch the actual hearings (don't watch reporters take parts of them out of context) it's usually very straight forward and constructive. Part of it is also to function as a communication channel to the people. It shows their constituents that the…

> Do you have any examples? I watch almost all of their public hearings and it's rarely ever grandstanding. That's true of most committees; the difference that makes SSCI seem better is that non-grandstanding hearings (or moments of hearings) from, say, the Senate Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry have roughly a 0% chance of ever getting coverage from the major media, whereas, due to subject matter, S…

Did you even watch the hearing?

https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/hearings/open-hearing-fo...

Re: Where in the World Is Larry Page?

#230
I saw some of those hearings, it is just grandstanding for congressmen, they don't really try to get to the bottom of the issue or even let people answer their questions, it is more about them talking and showing off. It reminds be a bit of this Cathy Newman vs Peterson interview, no wonder Google doesn't want to be part of this.
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