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Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

nytimes.com

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Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#221

Post by snowwrestler »

noer wrote: post #113
josephjrobison wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon is most like Facebook in that the ads are only displayed on its own property rather than all across the whole internet on any site that displays 3rd party ads. That, combined with the fact that Amazon also has a ton of data on its users just like Facebook makes them very alike (not that Google doesn't as well). What separates Google from Amazon is that their paid ads can be displayed on any 3rd party site that…

Facebook has a display network similar to DoubleClick, called Audience Network. In my experience it pays publishers a lot better than DoubleClick. For advertisers, they're able to target on more demographic categories (for now, the CA scandal has done a lot to reduce targeting options).

Twitter also has an ad product called "Twitter Display" in which your promoted tweets get reformatted into display ads and shown in other ad-supported mobile apps. It was some of the cheapest, but worst-performing, traffic we've ever driven through a paid channel.

Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#222

Post by dkrich »

> Thanks to the vast amount of data Amazon collects from its customers, it can target ads not only to basic demographics — say, women over the age of 35 — but to a more precise segment of customers who are likely to be shopping for cellphones or barbecue grills.

...and later:

> “We can reach the right consumer at the right time using their wealth of data to target,” Ms. McGurk said. “Other traditional digital platforms do not have the level of purchase data that Amazon has on their customers.”

It seems rather disingenuous to paint Google and Facebook as the bad guys for selling out their users' data for ad revenue but then go on to say that they are behind Amazon because Amazon has so much more useful customer data and is willing to sell it. It's becoming clear that the NYT is going to war with Facebook and Google (understandably so, since they killed their business).

One final point- in a time of economic expansion, which we have been in for a few years now, ad spending is going to rise. All players- Facebook, Google, Amazon, probably even the New York Times- will see better results. There are more dollars floating around the economy as consumers spend more instead of save and advertisers feel that they need to spend more across all channels just to keep up with their competitors.

Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#223

Post by dkrich »

scarface74 wrote: post #2

This is my bear case for Google. Google offers the least precise targeting compared to Facebook and Amazon. Facebook knows more about its users because users tell it about themselves and Amazon knows more about purchasing habits of its users because of thier purchase and search history. If I’m searching for something with the intention on buying it, I am going to go to the specific site - like Priceline, hotels.com,…

I look at it the other way. People keep comparing Amazon and Facebook to YouTube, But I don't understand why. YouTube is a single channel and is very different from others because they serve video ads.

Google (search) on the other hand, seems to be a much closer competitor to Amazon because lots of people search for products there and then use Google's product search to find the product they want from many different retailers. It's sort of Amazon vs. the field. Do you want to limit your search to Amazon and its platform or expand your search to every online retailer who doesn't sell on Amazon? I've found Google product search to be extremely useful in finding the right combination of trusted retailer and lowest price (including sales tax and shipping). Add to this a list of highly-ranked reviews or sites related to the product I'm searching for directly beneath the list of products, and I usually find Google a better shopping experience.

Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#224

Post by scarface74 »

manigandham wrote: post #188
scarface74 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does Google pick up location data on an iOS device using Safari browsing Facebook? Can a site with Google analytics gather the logged in Google account name? The upcoming iOS 12 version of Safari is going to make it even harder to do browser fingerprinting.

Networks have locations. Cell towers, wifi hotspots, corporate routers, etc. Not hard to get a location as long as there is network traffic. Google analytics does know the same user across sites and devices but this is of course not exposed to the site, it's used by Google for ad targeting. Browser fingerprinting is not necessary because people log in (to apps and sites) and will never be possible to fully reduce unl…

Networks have locations. Cell towers, wifi hotspots, corporate routers, etc. Not hard to get a location as long as there is network traffic.

How does that help unless they are sharing the data with Google?

Apple's cookie war also only helps Facebook and Google who maintain active 1st party cookies with every user, and meanwhile hurts all the independent networks and publishers who have to get people to keep logging in. This is why it helps to actually have some adtech expertise and industry cooperation instead of creating silly browser rules and turning Safari into the new IE.

If you haven’t noticed, Apple isn’t trying to help the adtech industry. Apple has a built in framework that allows third parties to submit ad blocking rules into Safari and (some) embedded webviews.

I didn’t know how bad Google’s search results were with most of the page taken over by shopping results on mobile until I started loading results with content blocking turned off to post on this topic.

Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#225

Post by scarface74 »

TheForumTroll wrote: post #192
scarface74 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if I’m on an iPhone. They know the vicinity I’m in but they don’t know exactly which store I’m at if it is an area with a lot of stores nor do they know that I’m with my friends. I probably added them to the check in and/or tagged them in a picture.

You do know that Apple only tries to stop things like this for everyone else than themselves, right? I wouldn't trust them any more than Google. At least you can use an android phone without Google apps if you want to. Good luck with using an iPhone without sending your data to Apple or trying to remove all Apple's stuff (step one: iOS).

Unless Apple is lying and third party research says they aren’t, they only store location data locally on the device and have an entire framework where they anonymize location data sent back for improving their service - differential privacy.

For the really paranoid, you can completely turn off most sharing with Apple, disable iCloud backups and backup to your PC with iTunes.

Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#226

Post by MiddleEndian »

AznHisoka wrote: post #91
scarface74 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of that data is still just based on Google trying to “infer” interests which is not as accurate as people telling them about themselves. For instance, Facebook knows your relationship status as soon as it changes because most people tell them . Facebook knows where people like to eat because people check in. They know which events you are going to that are advertised on FB because you tell them “that you are inte…

“which is not as accurate as people telling them about themselves.” I’d argue Google’s data is 100x more accurate of who I am as a person than the data I provide FB. As a theoretical example, based on my search history, Google knows I have hemorrhoids, am paranoid about pancreatic cancer, looking for a SMS API provider, am a borderline gambler (because i check betting odds every day), and pondering the benefits of a…

Facebook also has Messenger, which to my knowledge and from my experience is far more prominent than Google Hangouts for "private" digital communication. Presumably they mine those conversations for ads as well.

Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#227

Post by partiallypro »

millstone wrote: post #206
Rainymood wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The general public won't care as long as Amazon is able to offer prices lower than competitors.

They will when the counterfeit problem hits the mainstream consciousness. There's a limit to how many "genuine" Apple power adapters can self-combust before it goes really viral. That's when Amazon will need to draw on their deep wells of goodwill, but they're squandering them today by cozying up to advertisers.

The counterfeit problem is HUGE, I think people are greatly underestimating how many counterfeit items sold on Amazon.

Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#228

Post by Rainymood »

krn wrote: post #212
gbersac wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This 1000 time. I only care about prices when I am shopping online. The problem is, Amazon is not often the less expensive option.

I think every company cares about its customer loyalty, and damaging the trust in your brand might leave you with the customers who use you only because you are the cheapest. This would quickly make your brand worthless.

In my honest opinion, customer loyalty is a thing of the past. I am in no way loyal to Google, Facebook, Amazon, or Apple. However, they continue to make the best products, hence I do business with them.

Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#229

Post by noer »

propogandist wrote: post #140
noer wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook has a display network similar to DoubleClick, called Audience Network. In my experience it pays publishers a lot better than DoubleClick. For advertisers, they're able to target on more demographic categories (for now, the CA scandal has done a lot to reduce targeting options).

in my experience FB's audience network was junk

Compared to Google's Display Network using non-retargeting ads? IMO, comparing banner placements to native social is like comparing apples to oranges

Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#230

Post by ksec »

Arnt wrote: post #198
carlsborg wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Total revenues for 2017 Alphabet = $110B (about 85% comes from advertising) Facebook = $40B If Amazon is doing ~$8B and the others about $4B annually.. how does this square with the $88B market size in this article headline?

$88B is probably the US or North American market, where Facebook's revenue is $20B, not $40B.

Christ I wish they could state that. When you are reporting companies like Apple, Facebook and Google which has an worldwide operation, we expect those figures to be world wide and not a specific market.

Edit: I just look up the worldwide total for Digital Ads are $228.44 billion in 2017. Total Ads market worldwide including TV, Print Ads etc are 500+ Billion per year.

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