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YC China and Qi Lu

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#221

Post by PaulHoule »

Of all places they could go.

China appearing to succeed at a time when democracy is on the ropes is a dangerous trend for democracy.

When you import goods from China, you import repression.

Short-termed capitalists might think the repression applies just to workers, but China is a country with no human rights, no property rights, no rule of law. The Chinese government reserves the right to take anything you "own" there. Somehow it is a capitalist and communist hell at the same time.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#222

Post by AJ007 »

google_censors wrote: post #192

It's amazing that a company that Paul Graham co-founded is getting into bed with an authoritarian government notorious for its human rights abuses. To succeed in China you can't go against the government. So is he going to be pushing as hard for political change in China as he is in the US, or will he remain silent as his company reaps the profits?

I would like to see a statement that YC China will not discriminate based on ethnicity, gender, religion, or sexual orientation and more importantly will not support startups which create technology which make doing so easier.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#223

Post by tim333 »

shard972 wrote: post #52
jumelles wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Caring about human rights is silly?

If you want to make it in China then yea, you probably shouldn't be too hung up on human rights. It's not some universal concept that has applied throughout the world for our existence so it's quite rude to pretend like China has to bow to these systems of human rights we developed without china's input.

Maybe it's rude to the Chinese leadership but the ordinary people there probably quite like having rights.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#224

Post by jjcc »

google_censors wrote: post #192

It's amazing that a company that Paul Graham co-founded is getting into bed with an authoritarian government notorious for its human rights abuses. To succeed in China you can't go against the government. So is he going to be pushing as hard for political change in China as he is in the US, or will he remain silent as his company reaps the profits?

If you admire PG as I do, please read an essay from PG again: http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html

I believe Paul Graham knows better than average American about China. I appraise him, not for his move as a venture capitalist who want to make money (Many people who share your belief think he is cynical and only thinking about making money, which might be part of the reason), but quite opposite , for his moral courage against prevailed belief of Mob which is the same evil as authoritarian region's.

Politics is often compared to religion but it's actually worse: many religion believer can keep their belief private but in politics most "belief oriented people" are not aware of they don't differentiate their opinions/beliefs from facts. This can radicalize many opposite side people knowing the truth. Eventually this cognitive defect of modern human being caused conflicts all over the world. Even here in HN, I've seen quite a few radicalized HNer's beaned by dang (the moderator of HN) due to their misbehave that were (mistakenly) considered to be caused by strong nationalist views.

I would suggest all HNer's keep political view private as much as possible if totally avoidance is not piratical.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#225

Post by claydavisss »

google_censors wrote: post #192

It's amazing that a company that Paul Graham co-founded is getting into bed with an authoritarian government notorious for its human rights abuses. To succeed in China you can't go against the government. So is he going to be pushing as hard for political change in China as he is in the US, or will he remain silent as his company reaps the profits?

why do you think any of these companies and VCs care about anything but $$$?

why is Qi Lu required to push for "political change"? is he supposed to share your views?

that same regime built your phone, so why not lead by example?

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#226

Post by throwaway2048 »

dang wrote: post #119
angersock wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay dang, have a link: http://time.com/5366225/china-uighurs-detention-report/ A million Uyghur and Muslims in camps. That's a sixth of a Holocaust.

It's unsurprising that you Godwinned this thread, since where else can monotonic escalation go? By doing that you've cemented the point. If you guys want to fling furious links around, you need to find another site to do it. It isn't part of thoughtful discussion—it's pure reflex.

Complaining somebody "godwinned" a thread (which is a total misrepresentation of godwins law, and even the person that coined it said this kind of interpretation of it is stupid) is an unbelievably lazy dismissal of a situation that is quite literally directly comparable to some of the worst actions the nazis took.

If we aren't allowed to talk about and compare what the nazis did, how will we learn from it?

If this comparison is not permitted in this situation, when will it ever be?

Really quite disappointed in your stance on this one.

And please, spare us the condescending attitude that we don't actually care about this stuff. If we are going to veer off into "unstated positions and assumptions" territory there is a white hot glaringly obvious apparent conflict of interest with HN moderation shutting down discussion of human rights abuses right as YC china launches, dont you think?

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#227

Post by ardy42 »

google_censors wrote: post #190
jumelles wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed 100%. To me it's madness that Marriott and Benz wouldn't stand up for the right to speak one's mind.

You mean Mercedes, the company that used slave laborers from camps to build vehicles and engines for the Nazis?

> You mean Mercedes, the company that used slave laborers from camps to build vehicles and engines for the Nazis?

One would have hoped they'd have learned something from that.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#228

Post by deejaybog »

vasco wrote: post #215
omarforgotpwd wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a billion MORE people in China than in the US. There is enormous industry and innovation there. China's government is terrible but that is their issue to resolve. All we can do is speak out, but refusing to do business hurts Chinese and American people far more than it hurts the Chinese government. Our government kills many innocent people accidentally as part of the normal course of war, but we consider it…

One accidentally breaks an egg. One doesn't "accidentally" kill innocent people because they "accidentally" launched a missile to an area where civilians are.

Yeah, "incidentally" would be a better qualification.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#229

Post by claydavisss »

PaulHoule wrote: post #221

Of all places they could go. China appearing to succeed at a time when democracy is on the ropes is a dangerous trend for democracy. When you import goods from China, you import repression. Short-termed capitalists might think the repression applies just to workers, but China is a country with no human rights, no property rights, no rule of law. The Chinese government reserves the right to take anything you "own" the…

> When you import goods from China, you import repression

can you please tell us where the goods in your home were manufactured? why not start with the ones with the glowing white apple on them?

if you won't change, why should anyone else?

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#230

Post by ardy42 »

omarforgotpwd wrote: post #203
google_censors wrote: post #192

It's amazing that a company that Paul Graham co-founded is getting into bed with an authoritarian government notorious for its human rights abuses. To succeed in China you can't go against the government. So is he going to be pushing as hard for political change in China as he is in the US, or will he remain silent as his company reaps the profits?

There are a billion MORE people in China than in the US. There is enormous industry and innovation there. China's government is terrible but that is their issue to resolve. All we can do is speak out, but refusing to do business hurts Chinese and American people far more than it hurts the Chinese government. Our government kills many innocent people accidentally as part of the normal course of war, but we consider it…

> China's government is terrible but that is their issue to resolve. All we can do is speak out, but refusing to do business hurts Chinese and American people far more than it hurts the Chinese government.

No. You can't do business with China and speak out because then the Chinese government will refuse to do business with you. You have to toe their line in the West in order to get access to their market. See the recent articles regarding airline's treatment of Taiwan on their websites [1].

[1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-airlines-china/u-s-ai...

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