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A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

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Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#221

Post by pcl »

nickserv wrote: post #9

Do your children a favor and get them a "real" computer with keyboard and mouse, instead of a tablet. I've found it helps with several things. For one, I've seen children accustomed to using touch interfaces blurring the line between physical and virtual, i.e swiping at physical objects like books, photos, even walls. I've not seen this behavior with those used to non touch interfaces. Also, learning to use a keyboar…

> I've seen children accustomed to using touch interfaces blurring the line between physical and virtual, i.e swiping at physical objects

A friend of mine in college once wrote date on a sheet of paper during an exam, expecting to find out what time it was...

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#222

Post by kashyapc »

ldjb wrote: post #198
falcor84 wrote: post #147

The first example provided in the article (indeed the first sentence) is “How do I double click?”, and I want to focus on this. As a kid in the 90s, I just took double clicking as a necessary evil. But after many many opportunities of trying (mostly successfully) to teach it to both the elderly and to kids, I've gradually grown to hate it. It's such a horrible gesture, difficult to perform, complicated to reason abou…

I often encounter people having issues double-clicking. Actually, a lot of people have trouble just single-clicking, so double-clicking is even more of a challenge. A lot of people just can't get the knack for clicking twice in quick succession. And the inconsistency between when they should single-click and when they should double-click causes a lot of confusion. I think it probably would make life easier to get rid…

The other week my Dutch language teacher (he's ~55) wrote an email "I would like to try Linux, can you please assist?" after learning about what is open source and libre software. I was pleasantly surprised to receive his email. So last week I went to install Fedora 28 on his new laptop. It all went smoothly. No, that's a lie; I had to do a little scary command-line surgery while he watched me do it (and heard me assure he doesn't need to do anything like that).

I set up all the requisite things, and since it was his first time, we went through a few common desktop workflows tailored to his needs. There I noticed: he was single-clicking where he needed to double-click—e.g. while opening a directory. I briefly explained the differences between the two and we tried again. He got better, but still struggled. I biked back home wondering if he'll continue to struggle with the double-click. :-(

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#223

Post by thinkingemote »

pcl wrote: post #221
nickserv wrote: post #9

Do your children a favor and get them a "real" computer with keyboard and mouse, instead of a tablet. I've found it helps with several things. For one, I've seen children accustomed to using touch interfaces blurring the line between physical and virtual, i.e swiping at physical objects like books, photos, even walls. I've not seen this behavior with those used to non touch interfaces. Also, learning to use a keyboar…

> I've seen children accustomed to using touch interfaces blurring the line between physical and virtual, i.e swiping at physical objects A friend of mine in college once wrote date on a sheet of paper during an exam, expecting to find out what time it was...

College? As in older than 13? What else did they write? Was it the first time they saw paper? I'm flabbergasted but want to know more!

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#224

Post by walshemj »

21 wrote: post #196
walshemj wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the UK Day rate for a Camera Operator (labour only) is around £420 for TV and £600 for film - which compares quite well for the contractor rates - and you wont fall foul or IR 35. Journalists your right - there is a lot of young people who have the dream of being the next woodwood and Bernstein - and so news paper publishers take advantage.

> TV cameraman Joel Shippey: 'although a seasoned cameraman can earn between £300 and £400 a day, you'll only be earning the minimum wage for the first few years. I was doing jobs for free when I began' > "You have to be very sure you want to do it because it involves years of long hours, challenging conditions and low pay." https://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/mar/12/how-become-tv-... I doubt there are minimum wag…

Well you don't start as an operator and also it helps to have connections unfortunately

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#225

Post by [deleted] »

kashyapc wrote: post #222
ldjb wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often encounter people having issues double-clicking. Actually, a lot of people have trouble just single-clicking, so double-clicking is even more of a challenge. A lot of people just can't get the knack for clicking twice in quick succession. And the inconsistency between when they should single-click and when they should double-click causes a lot of confusion. I think it probably would make life easier to get rid…

The other week my Dutch language teacher (he's ~55) wrote an email "I would like to try Linux, can you please assist?" after learning about what is open source and libre software. I was pleasantly surprised to receive his email. So last week I went to install Fedora 28 on his new laptop. It all went smoothly. No, that's a lie; I had to do a little scary command-line surgery while he watched me do it (and heard me ass…

[deleted]

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#226

Post by pcl »

thinkingemote wrote: post #223
pcl wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've seen children accustomed to using touch interfaces blurring the line between physical and virtual, i.e swiping at physical objects A friend of mine in college once wrote date on a sheet of paper during an exam, expecting to find out what time it was...

College? As in older than 13? What else did they write? Was it the first time they saw paper? I'm flabbergasted but want to know more!

This was around 20 years ago (!), and yes, he was a fully-grown person. But he probably hadn’t slept in a few days — exam week and all. And he definitely spent more time with a keyboard than a pen.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#227

Post by UncleEntity »

curuinor wrote: post #163
21 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A computer is a machine of profound alienation from the actual ability to create and the ability to use A funny thing to say, given that today a lot of content requires computers to produce, even abstract art. > Many people will die having used computers for 10 hours a day but not being able to really act with computers and create with computers How is that different from people who voraciously read countless books…

How many of these literature readers can't write? Not write well, can't write at all. How many can't take a video? Not take a good video, but take one at all. But you can use a computer without knowing how to create for it _at all_.

Countless people can drive a car but have no clue how to change a tire. If they get stuck in the wilderness during a blizzard their life is in serious peril but most people are just "you really don't know how to change a tire?"

And most computer usage is creating tons of valuable information to feed into the googlebrain.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#228

Post by titanix2 »

scarface74 wrote: post #167
userbinator wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO all very poor substitutes. Yes, I know Apple wants to police their App Store, but writing something for your own personal use (and maybe to give some copies to friends) shouldn't be a huge bureaucratic hurdle. (Android has smaller hurdles but still not insignificant --- when the first step in the tutorial is "download and install this gigabyte-sized piece of software", you can be sure a ton of potential users ha…

How will it be a huge hurdle to write your own Siri actions that can control other apps on your phone and your smart devices with iOS 12? You can look on the Internet to see what people have been doing with the Workflow app (the app that Apple acquired and is integrating into iOS) without Apple’s hooks.

Well, you are speaking about an OS that isn’t publicly released. I’m speaking about programming capabilities of iPhone et al. as they are right now and have been in the last 10 years.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#229

Post by pbhjpbhj »

dorchadas wrote: post #108
hocuspocus wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 2000's I had to write physics and chemistry lab reports, typically 4-5 pages long, with enough formulas that I ended up ditching Word and MathType for some basic LaTeX. In maths I had to write Excel macros and Mathematica scripts. I know that education in Japan is probably a bit more disconnected from reality compared to the pragmatism we see here, but still, the goal of high-school is to prepare students for…

> but still, the goal of high-school is to prepare students for college no It depends on who you ask. In the school I work at, in the Rural South in America, many parents and students say the goal of high school should be to teach the students how to do a competent job and take care of themselves after school. So they complain about having to learn Algebra II and other "useless" stuff, while they don't even know how…

It depends on who you ask because school serves different purposes for different people. School is a service that someone can use as part of their education.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#230

Post by ehsanu1 »

thinkingemote wrote: post #223
pcl wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've seen children accustomed to using touch interfaces blurring the line between physical and virtual, i.e swiping at physical objects A friend of mine in college once wrote date on a sheet of paper during an exam, expecting to find out what time it was...

College? As in older than 13? What else did they write? Was it the first time they saw paper? I'm flabbergasted but want to know more!

These are just brain farts. Read throughout the sibling threads to see all the other personal accounts.
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