221–230 of 341 posts
The Discovery Channel's "Dirty Jobs"[0] show made a segment involving the SFFD's ladder construction/maintenance crew. In it, they explained that wooden ladders are cheaper to maintain than aluminum ones and I think also discount fiberglass ladders as well. It's worth a watch if one is interested in this topic. 0 - http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/dirty-jobs/about-this-show...
LOL at SFFD giving any shits about costs. This is the same department that power grabbed emergency medical response away from dedicated paramedics in ambulances. Responding in full ladder trucks to take care of drunk homeless people...yeah, they do that, costing millions every year in added expenses and road repairs. But good for them for saving a few bucks on ladders, that must make a huge difference.
>There's a city-specific reason why San Francisco has stuck with wood rather than swap over to metals, and the answer lies in looking up. The high-voltage cables and wires that guide the city's (oft-maligned) public transport system Muni, and trolley cars crisscross above nearly every street, mean that ladders made of conductive elements are generally just too dangerous to use.
>"I think there's a lot of fire departments that went aluminum and wish they could go back to wood but it's too expensive," Braun says. "There's only two ladders manufacturers in the states—and we're one of 'em. We only make our own ladders and can barely even keep up with what we have."
Earlier quoted context omitted.
"The material they show in the article is massive. Thick, long and heavy. Even if there are kilns big enough, the wood would no longer be straight after a fast kiln drying." This is not true, depending on timeline. It's true of the production rate kilns, and as you say, it doesn't matter for construction lumber, which is why they do it. But assuming 3+ years to dry your 3x3" board, even doing it in a kiln at a 6 mont…
These ladders last decades so presumably most of the shop work is in maintaining existing ladders, not in pumping out lots of new ones. It would be a waste of time and money to kiln fire the wood for 6 months when you can just order it 1-2 years in advance and leave it in the corner to accomplish the same purpose.
Then literally this entire process is a complete waste of time, because they will never stay at any moisture content over this time period.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The tax base just isn't there sometimes. I've seen community budgets where everyone is hanging on by a thread. Not quite as bad as Native American reservations, but up there.
Sure, many communities have that problem. But I think there are at least some where that would not be the case anymore if they raised their tax rates.
I can't think of any reason to acclimatize them this way instead of kiln drying/vaporizing them (depending) to roughly the right moisture content and waiting for 1% change (instead of kiln drying them to 0, or waiting forever for completely green wood) There are studies going back to the 70's by the forestry service (and others) showing there is no change in mechanical properties of pine/fir from these drying schedul…
> "I can't think of any reason to acclimatize them this way instead of" .... I bet the expert woodmakers doing this job have very good reasons. Reasons that you haven't thought of.. Seriously, these people are experts. They probably know their job, really, really well.
This is just a random appeal to authority. If you would like to be constructive, please be constructive.
First, there is one person doing this. Or was. It was Jerry Lee, who recently retired. He did it for 30 years.
In fact, for giggles, i reached out this morning, and Jerry Lee says he is not an expert by any means in any of this. He was just a pattern maker who thought he could be helpful. He had no particular expertise in this when he started, and he would argue he is in fact, not an expert.
When I asked, he said they just didn't need to do it faster.
So it turns out no, they aren't magical experts trained in the artisanal art of ladder making with information passed down from the ages, and no, there are no magical reasons that only the wood cognoscenti have thought of. Sorry.
They just use the forestry handbook data and info like everyone else!
Earlier quoted context omitted.
LOL at SFFD giving any shits about costs. This is the same department that power grabbed emergency medical response away from dedicated paramedics in ambulances. Responding in full ladder trucks to take care of drunk homeless people...yeah, they do that, costing millions every year in added expenses and road repairs. But good for them for saving a few bucks on ladders, that must make a huge difference.
Coming from NYC, it is somewhat surprising to see such anger directed at fire departments. Here, the FDNY seems universally loved.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
a retired police officer once told me that the quantity of officers citywide goes through a repeated cycle from low to high to low again. when the number of officers is too low and there's too much crime, the people demand that the government hire more. so government does that. and crime goes down. then the public notices all these police officers "doing nothing" and complains about wasted government resources. so, n…
This is a common phenomena, and I'm not sure if there's a general term for it. E.g. people prematurely stop taking antibiotics because they feel better, or people go off their meds because they feel fine, etc.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure why, but I'm reminded of that scene in Gangs of New York where two fire brigades show up to a house fire and proceed to duke it out over who has rights to put it out and plunder the building. The building ends up burning down.
[flagged]
There's an old saying among firefighters: "The fire service is 200+ years of tradition, unimpeded by progress". Now obviously that isn't strictly true, and SF does have some good reasons for sticking with their wooden ladders... but one can't help but suspect that sheer tradition is a somewhat significant factor. Of course some departments adopt change faster than others, and some kinds of change are adopted more rea…
It's interesting, and I wonder to what extent sticking to tradition like this also helps them stick to tradition with regards to values. I mean, obviously, not all values from 200 years ago are worth hanging on to, but I see the firehouse as a place of mutual respect and trust and understanding. I wonder how much of that culture would fade if they just threw everything away and replaced it, had a purchasing departmen…