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We Shouldn’t Be Surprised at the Theranos Fraud

nautil.us

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Re: We Shouldn’t Be Surprised at the Theranos Fraud

#221

Post by mrguyorama »

GFischer wrote: post #213
Bartweiss wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Magic Leap could certainly fail , but I don't understand how they could be another Theranos. Theranos had contracts-signed, money-spent deadlines for things they couldn't provide (the Walgreens deal), and was selling further investors by lying about having their product already in use by the government. At least publicly, Magic Leap has promised virtually nothing. They said in December they'd ship something this year…

Agreed. Somebody else mentioned it's more similar to Segway than to Theranos - overhyped to hell, but not a scam.

IMO selling vaporware is indeed a scam

Re: We Shouldn’t Be Surprised at the Theranos Fraud

#222

Post by supreme_sublime »

naravara wrote: post #211
supreme_sublime wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strange that you view it this way. I'm not extremely familiar with the case, but how I remember it is Gawker published a sex tape of Hulk Hogan and refused to take it down. While at the same time lampooning "society" about "the fappening". Hulk Hogan sued Gawker, which brings it to a court. Peter Thiel had a personal grudge against Gawker and used that case to take them down. Either way, it was still up to a court an…

>I'd characterize it as, "journalists" using their platform to go after specific people they don't like. Thiel helping one of their victims who couldn't afford to mount a case without running the risk of ruining themselves if they lost. Seems to me like a really noble thing to do. And yet Breitbart is still up. So this idea that it's just about enforcing the law rings a bit hollow.

I don't read Breitbart, nor do I particularly care what they do. I'm not sure what was done by the company that was illegal?

Re: We Shouldn’t Be Surprised at the Theranos Fraud

#223

Post by cleong »

sametmax wrote: post #218
cleong wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But in that alternate universe Apple would still have been a huge success, and the iPhone would have been another failed product like the Windows Phone. In addition to this pattern to success, Jobs was not a criminal. Theranos made VERY negligent statements such as the military using Theranos products(they did not).

> But in that alternate universe Apple would still have been a huge success Replace iPhone with iPod and Apple never reaches this sky it's currently at. It the product that put it back on the map, open the itune cash valve and paved the road for the iphone flag ship product. The situation is never _exactly_ the same. But you can see a pattern. And history is written by the victors. > Theranos made VERY negligent stat…

Your right about history written by victors, however if Theranos delivered would there be fraud? The issue at hand is that she said she delivered when she did not.

Re: We Shouldn’t Be Surprised at the Theranos Fraud

#224

Post by sametmax »

cleong wrote: post #223
sametmax wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But in that alternate universe Apple would still have been a huge success Replace iPhone with iPod and Apple never reaches this sky it's currently at. It the product that put it back on the map, open the itune cash valve and paved the road for the iphone flag ship product. The situation is never _exactly_ the same. But you can see a pattern. And history is written by the victors. > Theranos made VERY negligent stat…

Your right about history written by victors, however if Theranos delivered would there be fraud? The issue at hand is that she said she delivered when she did not.

Of course, but failing show it as the fraud it is. Succeeding would have made it appear just like a "risky bet".

Re: We Shouldn’t Be Surprised at the Theranos Fraud

#225

Post by Frondo »

craftyguy wrote: post #201
specialist wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a whistleblower sucks. I was an election integrity activist. We were ridiculed, harassed, and in some cases jailed. Of course, we were (mostly) right. But there's never a nod or h/t to acknowledge the pain and sacrifice. And don't be fooled into thinking the sniffing salts are working. There's always another con, fraud, bubble. (In my case, all postal balloting, which is worse than the touchscreens.) I think wh…

> In my case, all postal balloting, which is worse than the touchscreens. Got any more info on this? I'm in a state where all voting is done through postal ballots.

I grew up in Oregon, which has been 100% vote-by-mail for years, and fraud is non-existent there.

This is FUD, to dust off an old chestnut, at least as far as Oregon is concerned.

Check it: https://www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&q=oregon+vote+by+m...

In the 2016 election, a potential 54 cases of voter fraud. Here's the breakdown of the kind of fraud (which amounts to .002% of ballots -- one in 38,000):

"Richardson said the suspicious ballots broke down into several categories: 46 voters appeared to vote in Oregon and another state; six individuals listed as deceased voted; and two voters registered in Oregon voted twice."

Re: We Shouldn’t Be Surprised at the Theranos Fraud

#226

Post by zeth___ »

themaninthedark wrote: post #77
zeth___ wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second you're dealing with someone more complicated than an electron true and false are irrelevant. What matters is how true and false something is. Theranos was more false than true, but then again so it Tesla. How Musk will be treated after Telsa implodes will tell us a lot about how sexist our culture is. I'd personally be going for the pitchforks but I don't see many others doing the same.

You are comparing apples to oranges. I have not followed Theranos closely but from what I have read they had no product at all. This would make Theranos completely false. Musk may be over promising as to what his company can deliver with regards to number of units but he has a working product. This is something that has happened time and time again in all industries, if he fails than he is just another run of the mil…

We will make a blood test unit that's the side of a thumb nail and we will build an electric sedan for $35k are both lies. Tesla has no product, they have an expensive prototype.

Re: We Shouldn’t Be Surprised at the Theranos Fraud

#227

Post by gwbas1c »

kumarvvr wrote: post #26

The most amazing thing about this whole situation is that there were experts in the field who were shouting out about the impossibility of Holmes' claims right from the beginning. The media, though, never paid enough attention (or was possibly subverted by Theranos itself) to the naysayers. These incidents ought to remind us the exponentially important role media plays in our lives and how important it is that we com…

> The most amazing thing about this whole situation is that there were experts in the field who were shouting out about the impossibility of Holmes' claims right from the beginning.

Ummm, have you heard about Bitcoin? Hacker News recently removed a well-written article where Bill Gates and Warren Buffet explain, in very clear terms, why it's a bubble.

By the time I made it to the comments page, the page showed the article as flagged.

(Basically, anyone who understands distributed systems knows Bitcoin won't scale. Anyone know understands economics knows that a deflationary currency won't work.)

Look at Bitcoin for an example of where the experts are ignored.

Re: We Shouldn’t Be Surprised at the Theranos Fraud

#228

Post by gwbas1c »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #64

It works both ways though, a lot of people said Tesla was a fraud and they couldn't build a "real" electric car with a range of 300 miles. And to the credit of the critics they weren't wrong, there was some serious integration of battery technology that had never been done before that made it possible for the Model S to exist. Not that I'm defending Theranos, they should have come out and said "We're running into iss…

Well, Tesla started with a functional prototype. It's always been an economics game; and a game of scale.

Theranos didn't start with a functional prototype.

Re: We Shouldn’t Be Surprised at the Theranos Fraud

#229

Post by specialist »

Frondo wrote: post #225
craftyguy wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my case, all postal balloting, which is worse than the touchscreens. Got any more info on this? I'm in a state where all voting is done through postal ballots.

I grew up in Oregon, which has been 100% vote-by-mail for years, and fraud is non-existent there. This is FUD, to dust off an old chestnut, at least as far as Oregon is concerned. Check it: https://www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&q=oregon+vote+by+m... In the 2016 election, a potential 54 cases of voter fraud. Here's the breakdown of the kind of fraud (which amounts to .002% of ballots -- one in 38,000): "Richardson…

You’ve observed central count?

You’ve attended the canvassing board meetings?

You’ve audited an election?

You vetted the certification of the hardware, software, rules, procedures used by your jurisdiction?

You’ve collaborated with the nationwide network of admins, vendors, academics, and activists on these issues?

Can you refute anything I’ve stated?

Do you even know how your ballot is processed?

Did I say anything about fraud?

FUD indeed.

FWIW, you perfectly illustrate the challenges whistleblowers endure, so thanks for that.

Re: We Shouldn’t Be Surprised at the Theranos Fraud

#230

Post by Kiro »

busterarm wrote: post #190
aaron695 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comment from the oldest HN article I could find - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6349808 NO one refuted it. The issue is not that smart people didn't know, it's so many people can't see the obvious. Assuming the comment is ordered correctly it's the masses with the problem. Valid concerns were raised, no one could defend them, but the comment was left at the bottom. HN, like the media has flaws that don't allow…

> Magic Leap will fail, who knows when though. Been saying this since the beginning and just want to go on record with this again now in case this comes up 5 years from now like Theranos did.

Also on the record in case Magic Leap becomes the biggest thing ever.
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