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E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

washingtonpost.com

221–230 of 273 posts

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#221
post #171

Everybody is reading this wrong, which isn't a huge surprise because the Post seems to have nobody on hand who understands the facts of the case and relied on an interview with Lundgren heavily. He was not providing people with restore media they could use to fix their own machines. He was taking the restore media, burning it onto discs _with official Microsoft and Dell logos on them_ and then _selling them to comput…

"reselling the PC like this with the counterfeit restore media likely voids that Windows license agreement."

Violating a software license agreement should not result in jail time, ever.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#222
post #171

Everybody is reading this wrong, which isn't a huge surprise because the Post seems to have nobody on hand who understands the facts of the case and relied on an interview with Lundgren heavily. He was not providing people with restore media they could use to fix their own machines. He was taking the restore media, burning it onto discs _with official Microsoft and Dell logos on them_ and then _selling them to comput…

I don't know what ticks other people off but the problem I have with this is not with the sentencing, but the fact that Microsoft decided it had nothing better to do than go after a guy who was actually trying to do some good by promoting recycling. It's not like we have an oversupply of that in this world.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#223
post #171

Everybody is reading this wrong, which isn't a huge surprise because the Post seems to have nobody on hand who understands the facts of the case and relied on an interview with Lundgren heavily. He was not providing people with restore media they could use to fix their own machines. He was taking the restore media, burning it onto discs _with official Microsoft and Dell logos on them_ and then _selling them to comput…

"reselling the PC like this with the counterfeit restore media likely voids that Windows license agreement." Violating a software license agreement should not result in jail time, ever.

[deleted]

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#224
post #171

Everybody is reading this wrong, which isn't a huge surprise because the Post seems to have nobody on hand who understands the facts of the case and relied on an interview with Lundgren heavily. He was not providing people with restore media they could use to fix their own machines. He was taking the restore media, burning it onto discs _with official Microsoft and Dell logos on them_ and then _selling them to comput…

How are the disks counterfeit? As far as I understand they are functioning exactly like the 'official' disks. Etching the brand on them makes them more easily recognizable, as to what purpose they serve. There is no technical difference between the 'original' disk and the ones this person manufactured, so there is no possible intent to fool anyone. Nobody 'owns' a name or a logo. Intellectual property is impossible.…

> Nobody 'owns' a name or a logo. Intellectual property is impossible.

I'm an ancap, so I completely agree with you from a moral perspective... but c'mon. We all know that's not how the law works.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#225
post #171

Everybody is reading this wrong, which isn't a huge surprise because the Post seems to have nobody on hand who understands the facts of the case and relied on an interview with Lundgren heavily. He was not providing people with restore media they could use to fix their own machines. He was taking the restore media, burning it onto discs _with official Microsoft and Dell logos on them_ and then _selling them to comput…

How are the disks counterfeit? As far as I understand they are functioning exactly like the 'official' disks. Etching the brand on them makes them more easily recognizable, as to what purpose they serve. There is no technical difference between the 'original' disk and the ones this person manufactured, so there is no possible intent to fool anyone. Nobody 'owns' a name or a logo. Intellectual property is impossible.…

They're counterfeit because they weren't official. The test of counterfeit is whether or not a person might mistake the item in question as legitimate.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#226
post #14

From the article "“These sales of counterfeit operating systems,” Microsoft lawyer Bonnie MacNaughton wrote to the judge, “displaced Microsoft’s potential sales of genuine operating systems.” But Lundgren’s disks had no licenses and were intended for computers that already had licenses." and even worse, "Hurley decided Lundgren’s 28,000 restore disks had a value of $700,000, and that dollar amount qualified Lundgren…

> This is the most egregious case of a judge ruling on something he or she does not understand I've seen in a while.

Don't ever look into precedent on cases involving firearms, marijuana, or encryption then :)

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#227
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like he said in his defense, if he had labeled it "Eric's Restore Disc" instead of putting the Dell and Windows logo on it, he probably would have skirted any real repercussions. How is that a defense?!? Yes, it's true that if you don't crime, you don't get punished for crime, but... he crimed. And, from the article: > Lundgren had 28,000 of the disks made and shipped to a broker in Florida. Their plan was to sell…

He wasn't charged with trademark infringement, so its irrelevant. If he had removed the logos entirely they still would have sent him to jail. And that's the precedent they've set to anyone who might want to try this in the future.

Do you actually know this, or like most commenters here, was your introduction to this case the Washington Post that everyone else read?

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going back and reading the original WP article sheds some light on the whole case. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2018/04/24... He wasn't actually convicted of distributing software illegally and the arguments for the cost of the licenses is moot. That being said, initially Federal Prosecutors tried to say the discs were valued at $299 a piece but Microsoft intervened and said that they sold refurb…

> He wasn't actually convicted of distributing software illegally > He was convicted of counterfeiting and copyright infringement "Copyright infringement" here implies "distributing software illegally". Licenses are not "works" and thus cannot be copyrighted. Trademarks cannot be copyrighted and trademark infringement is not copyright infringement. > and the arguments for the cost of the licenses is moot Copyright in…

I think the sentencing is incredibly harsh and unfair. To their credit, Microsoft stepped in and corrected the Government on the valuation of the media otherwise he might potentially be facing worse fines or time.

As I said elsewhere, he should have been given the option to destroy the media and eat the cost.

What I object to is that the WP has framed Lundgren as having not done anything wrong and everyone is cursing Microsoft who is in the right.

> "Copyright infringement" here implies "distributing software illegally". Licenses are not "works" and thus cannot be copyrighted. Trademarks cannot be copyrighted and trademark infringement is not copyright infringement.

That's incorrect. A logo can be both Trademarked and Copyrighted.

> The entire point is that his disks had "zero or near zero" value to the copyright holder since they did not contain any licenses, and thus his sentence is unfair.

You're stating as fact the testimony of a witness, Glenn Weadock, and his entire testimony was ultimately dismissed.

> The judge said he disregarded Weadock’s testimony.

You're also not providing context around that quote to misrepresent it. Weadock was asked "In your opinion, without a code, either product key or COA [Certificate of Authenticity], what is the value of these reinstallation disks?"

That doesn't answer the question of if the disks have value with a code, or if the license is valid for the hardware which they're being used.

> Is that sufficient legal basis for the sentence?

Perhaps. I was asking why he went to the extra effort of making the disk look like an official restore disk from Dell instead of just scribbling "Eric's super wiz bang restore disc on it"?

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#229
post #171

Everybody is reading this wrong, which isn't a huge surprise because the Post seems to have nobody on hand who understands the facts of the case and relied on an interview with Lundgren heavily. He was not providing people with restore media they could use to fix their own machines. He was taking the restore media, burning it onto discs _with official Microsoft and Dell logos on them_ and then _selling them to comput…

"reselling the PC like this with the counterfeit restore media likely voids that Windows license agreement." Violating a software license agreement should not result in jail time, ever.

He was not violating a software license agreement.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm appealing to all talented college engineers and others to avoid applying to work Microsoft at all costs. They pursued this guy and are the reason this actually got so far. Your work would be literally furthering this sort of absurd outcome.

And I'm appealing to all talented college engineers and others to _work_ Microsoft at all costs - and change their culture to prevent this kind of situation from happening again.

Well.. maybe not at all costs...
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