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Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

businessinsider.com

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Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#221

Post by ChuckMcM »

yuhong wrote: post #217
ChuckMcM wrote: post #54

I have a lot of respect for someone who chooses to not work at a place because that place is doing bad things. There are so many things that go into that decision, how "important" is it to be employed, how "bad" is the business behavior, how "costly" to a reputation is it to leave or to stay. It is the kind of question that puts a persons character and self image on trial, and in my experience few people emerge on th…

How often does this kind of thing gets escalated to Larry/Sergey in general, BTW?

I expect everywhere is different. When I worked at Google I brought things up during open microphone time at the Friday meetings (usually hosted by one of Larry, Sergei, or Eric)

Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#222

Post by saagarjha »

tomc1985 wrote: post #62
saagarjha wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't be flippant. You know the what we mean here: the perception that those who work at Facebook are lacking in ethics or moral fiber. This isn't about politics.

Please don't tell other people what to do. As a Californian, the reaction he is describing is very plausible.

You do realize that I likely responded to them because I live in California as well, right? This isn't a political issue in the traditional sense of "on no they got Trump elected"; the issue would still exist if it was Clinton that ended up winning the election due to Facebook. The problem is that Facebook just should not have control over the politics, more so because the control they have was shown to be gained without their user's trust and without regard to their privacy.

Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#223

Post by saagarjha »

wu-ikkyu wrote: post #144
saagarjha wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't be flippant. You know the what we mean here: the perception that those who work at Facebook are lacking in ethics or moral fiber. This isn't about politics.

Are you implying ethics and morals are unrelated to politics?

In this case, yes. The issue here is the fact that Facebook had any effect on politics through what it was doing, not that Trump ended up getting elected.

Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#224

Post by saagarjha »

r00fus wrote: post #63
saagarjha wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't be flippant. You know the what we mean here: the perception that those who work at Facebook are lacking in ethics or moral fiber. This isn't about politics.

It's not a flippant remark - it's argument to extreme [1] (ie, paining those who question FB as only Trump-haters when many people have questioned FB long before CA/Trump entered the mainstream discussion). It doesn't help FB that Trump is associated with them and that he's in hot water already. [1] https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFalla...

The reason why I called it out as flippant was because I felt that they might have had a valid point, that Facebook was being unethical with regards to influencing elections, but they did it in a really poor way which ended up having the effect you mentioned in your response.

Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#225

Post by luckydude »

droidist2 wrote: post #141
luckydude wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless I'm mistaken, I tested out at 140 a long time ago. There is no friggin way I'm remotely as intelligent as Feynman was so there goes any faith in IQ tests being meaningful. Most of the people who have worked for me are demonstrably smarter than me and none of them are close to Feynman. Smart people but not at his level IMO. RIP IQ tests :)

Doesn't it depend a lot on what age you take the test though? Like I was very smart for my age as a child and I tested very high. Later in life I'm probably not much higher than my peers.

I think I tested around 30 (apparently still insecure enough back then to care, these days I care what my dogs think more than I care what people think :)

Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#226

Post by lancewiggs »

kfrzcode wrote: post #218
zemo wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> does having uber on your resume tarnish it? depends who's evaluating it and what their values are. If their values are aligned with Uber's values, then no. If their values are opposed to Uber's values, then yes. I'm squarely of the latter. Uber would be a major negative to me. But everyone is different. Some people might view it positively.

Why would working at Uber be a detractor on a resume? It's major company with assuredly hefty tech - regardless of the HR issues rampant, shouldn't the hire be based on merit not association?

If someone chooses to work there then clearly their cultural norms are questionable. Once it became obvious there are two choices - accept the culture or leave.

Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#227

Post by mabbo »

BRAlNlAC wrote: post #139
mabbo wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The cynic in me wonders if these employees are just responding to how others are starting to view their positions, more than ethical or moral quandaries. Doesn't need to be cynical. "I never thought of it that way" is maybe one of the most important phrases you can say. These people didn't see their jobs as unethical until someone really put a spotlight on what they do. It forced them to look at their roles in all…

>These people didn't see their jobs as unethical until someone really put a spotlight on what they do. That reflects a certain quality in the individual that I generally think of as bad, but I suppose may have some place in the greater scheme of coporate america. However I generally think that we have a moral imperative to constantly ask ourselves, "is this right? . . . 'Are we baddies'? I've understood that Facebook…

I've quit a job for ethical reasons before, in a similar vein to this issue with Facebook. I don't begrudge those who didn't. Not every issue is black and white.

Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#228

Post by na85 »

alasdair_ wrote: post #117
sametmax wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. And I doubt it's a mass exodus either. If you read "Surely you're joking Mr Feynman", the author clearly states that when making the bomb, they had a lot of fun. Lots of budgets. Only smart people. Working on the coolest projects. He even plays with the censorship and security practices. They never really thought too hard about the ethic part of it: they need to end the war, and that's it. They really said "…

>While skilled, I doubt than more than a small fraction of FB work force is close to Feynman's IQ. Feynman is semi-famous for testing at a much lower IQ than most people assume. (He scored 125 on his test at school). See: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/finding-the-next-ein...

IQ tests only measure your ability to write IQ tests.

Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#229

Post by insickness »

ThemalSpan wrote: post #28
taurath wrote: post #5

I wonder how many new hires pass up Facebook because of ethical concerns. Whats scary is if even internally people are moving departments because of ethics, that basically filters so that the least ethical people are on the teams with the most ethical concerns. If there's a real net effect on their hiring, they'll have to increase salaries to lure people in, which will take in even more unethical people (of course, n…

I find this issue much more pressing in the defense industry. I (thankfully) have the freedom to choose where I work. I will never willingly work on weapon systems. There are those that do though. Engineers who design things to kill other people. What the actual fuck.

So let me get this straight: You expect the police and military to use their weapons to defend you. You're willing to pay taxes to pay for those weapons. But you're too ethical to get paid to make them? I just want to be clear where on the spectrum your outrage falls.

Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#230

Post by dbasedweeb »

insickness wrote: post #229
ThemalSpan wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this issue much more pressing in the defense industry. I (thankfully) have the freedom to choose where I work. I will never willingly work on weapon systems. There are those that do though. Engineers who design things to kill other people. What the actual fuck.

So let me get this straight: You expect the police and military to use their weapons to defend you. You're willing to pay taxes to pay for those weapons. But you're too ethical to get paid to make them? I just want to be clear where on the spectrum your outrage falls.

When was the last time the military defended anyone in this country from an external threat? WWII? edit

I’m saying that deterrence and defense are different words with different meanings, and you used the word, “defend” somput down the goal posts.

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