Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Swedes turn against cashlessness

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 357 posts

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#221

Post by rhacker »

nearmuse wrote: post #180

Looks like most people in this comments section are afraid to pass for a luddite if they don't support cashless transactions. But the argument about centralized system watching every payment you make is still valid. Why are people so eager to jump off something and irreversibly lose its good properties (anonymity, decentralization and reliability in case of analogue money) and that just for the sake of minor comfort?…

The problem too is that too many people believe our laws are just and moral. The US economy has become a slave to our ability to invent laws and automated ways to monitor and enforce them. And in a world where you already know 2% of the population is breaking a would be law, from a certain perspective the act of lawmaking is actually profit generation. It's the perfect crime.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#222

Post by Kiro »

dalbasal wrote: post #173

Good. The cashless drive gives me the creeps. 1 - First, I like cash. It's tactile and gives me a feel for my spending. 2 - Cards are an duopoly, layered onto an oligopoly. Cashless gives this system a 2% tax on all spending (+ fraud, which retailers pay for). 3 - Government control is creepy too. Liberty reasons, privacy reasons, single-point-of failure reasons. Just simple competency reasons. 4 - It advantages big…

> How does a cashless lemonade stand work?

In my country even beggars accept cashless payments.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#223

Post by imartin2k »

INTPenis wrote: post #187
imartin2k wrote: post #153

I live in Sweden. No one I know uses cash. I haven't had the need for nor used cash for years. Even if headlines often are overblown, this feels particularly misleading, as it implies that there would be some bigger trend. Considering that many people only read headlines, I'd support a movement for becoming more accurate even with headlines. "In Sweden, some worry about the cashless society" would be way more apt.

You're missing the point though. We know Sweden is cashless, I live there too and the article isn't about Sweden becoming cashless. It's about an opposing opinion to the cashless trend that we're already used to. You might not know anyone who shares the opinion but I do, several of them. Personally I share the opinion on an ideological level but practically I'm just too lazy to make a real change in my life. I have f…

No I'm not missing the point. I am solely criticizing the absolute lack of accuracy in the headline, as it is misleading beyond the normal level of how headlines are usually misleading.

I have not made any comment about opinions about cash, whether I know someone who is has concerns about the lack of cash, or about my own standpoint.

In general terms, I feel like you about the topic: "Personally I share the opinion on an ideological level but practically I'm just too lazy to make a real change in my life."

That, however, can hardly be called "turning against cashlessness" :)

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#224

Post by sridca »

cantrevealname wrote: post #220
dalbasal wrote: post #173

Good. The cashless drive gives me the creeps. 1 - First, I like cash. It's tactile and gives me a feel for my spending. 2 - Cards are an duopoly, layered onto an oligopoly. Cashless gives this system a 2% tax on all spending (+ fraud, which retailers pay for). 3 - Government control is creepy too. Liberty reasons, privacy reasons, single-point-of failure reasons. Just simple competency reasons. 4 - It advantages big…

In addition, I like the finality of a cash transaction. For anything other than cash, I have to keep records in case something goes wrong. Example: A hotel might double-bill my credit card, and this has actually happened twice to me. If you pay cash, it's impossible to be double billed at some future point. Perhaps you still want a receipt, but you never need to check it against statements. The finality of cash avoid…

There was a hotel in Brooklyn which required that I provide them a credit card for security deposit. Or was it not the norm?

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#225

Post by mi100hael »

dsign wrote: post #217

I can't get enough of cashless, paper money and coins are about the most inconvenient thing people have had to put up with for thousands of years. Yes, giving control to the banks, private or run by the government, it's a bad idea. But if nothing else, bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies we have proven that it's possible to have digital money that is not controlled by a single central bank, or by any bank at all. We j…

I think it varies.

For small, daily transactions like coffee, lunch, etc., I definitely prefer cashless.

But there's definitely something to be said for the convenience & anonymity of just handing over a wad of cash if you're buying a used lawnmower or whatever on Craigslist.

I'd hate to not have the option.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#226

Post by imartin2k »

reaperducer wrote: post #208
imartin2k wrote: post #153

I live in Sweden. No one I know uses cash. I haven't had the need for nor used cash for years. Even if headlines often are overblown, this feels particularly misleading, as it implies that there would be some bigger trend. Considering that many people only read headlines, I'd support a movement for becoming more accurate even with headlines. "In Sweden, some worry about the cashless society" would be way more apt.

Perhaps you missed this part: "But an opinion poll this month revealed unease among Swedes, with almost seven out of 10 saying they wanted to keep the option to use cash, while just 25% wanted a completely cashless society." You might be cashless within your little tech circle, but it appears there are many more people who are uneasy with the idea.

Hey, if I would have been part of that survey, I also would have said "i want to keep the option to use cash".

It's totally possible to embrace the cashless lifestyle while being uneasy with it at the same time. I argue this actually is the norm. Like it is with a lot of stuff we do on the web as well. Who isn't uneasy with all the social media platforms but still uses some of them.

It's the new normal. Being uneasy with things and doing them.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#227

Post by imartin2k »

einhverfr wrote: post #194
imartin2k wrote: post #153

I live in Sweden. No one I know uses cash. I haven't had the need for nor used cash for years. Even if headlines often are overblown, this feels particularly misleading, as it implies that there would be some bigger trend. Considering that many people only read headlines, I'd support a movement for becoming more accurate even with headlines. "In Sweden, some worry about the cashless society" would be way more apt.

I just moved from Sweden. I used cash frequently, but not in large quantities. Cashlessness is helpful in some cases, but a burden in others. It is true you can get by without cash in Sweden but you cannot get by without a card, reasonably. But many of the corner markets have minimum payments by card, and so often having smallish money in cash is a very good thing. Additionally the farmer markets in the town squares…

Hehe I did the opposite, moved from Cash-obsessed Germany to cashfree Sweden. Whenever I travel back to Germany (or other countries), I take a special, big wallet with me, knowing that I have to put some bills inside.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#228

Post by m_alexgr »

dalbasal wrote: post #173

Good. The cashless drive gives me the creeps. 1 - First, I like cash. It's tactile and gives me a feel for my spending. 2 - Cards are an duopoly, layered onto an oligopoly. Cashless gives this system a 2% tax on all spending (+ fraud, which retailers pay for). 3 - Government control is creepy too. Liberty reasons, privacy reasons, single-point-of failure reasons. Just simple competency reasons. 4 - It advantages big…

Agree pretty much apart from the bitcoin failure part.

In nine years, bitcoin keeps on ticking and evolving. Segwit was/is a big deal, as lack of segwit held up further development. Lightning, x-chain atomic swaps, Schnorr signatures, MAST, side-chains to name a few additional features and improvements.

It's early days yet. Give it time.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#229

Post by imartin2k »

mrmekon wrote: post #196
imartin2k wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your point, but I have a slight correction: The EU has regulated the interchange fee, which is since then capped at "0.2% of the transaction value for Visa and Mastercard consumer debit cards" and "0.3% of the transaction value for Visa and Mastercard consumer credit cards." ( https://www.adyen.com/blog/all-you-need-to-know-about-the-eu... ) However, I am not a payment expert, so there might be an additional fe…

Well, true, that's somewhat better. But it's the principle of a privately-owned monopoly or oligopoly skimming profits off of a nation's economy that bothers me, not the absolute amount. As the other response to my comment said, cash itself has an overhead cost, too. But that cost is paid to our government at break-even cost, instead of to a private company for profit. If Visa and Mastercard had plenty of competition…

Yeah I tried to find the rates that Swish charges to businesses but didn't find them (although didn't look to thoroughly either). But can it really be even below the 0,2% of cap for debit cards?

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#230

Post by Symbiote »

dalbasal wrote: post #173

Good. The cashless drive gives me the creeps. 1 - First, I like cash. It's tactile and gives me a feel for my spending. 2 - Cards are an duopoly, layered onto an oligopoly. Cashless gives this system a 2% tax on all spending (+ fraud, which retailers pay for). 3 - Government control is creepy too. Liberty reasons, privacy reasons, single-point-of failure reasons. Just simple competency reasons. 4 - It advantages big…

1. Can your cash do this? [1] A breakdown of spending by my internet bank, by category.

4. In Sweden, and some other European countries (and China?) a lemonade stand works by person-to-person bank transfers, initiated using a mobile phone app. The Swedish one is called Swish, but I link to the Danish one [2] as they have an English explanation.

People really do use these apps for things like lemonade stands. I've seen an unattended garage sale, where everything was priced and a sign gave a phone number for payment.

It's also commonly used person-to-person, e.g. if a friend owes me for a spare concert ticket, part of a restaurant bill or whatever.

[1] http://i.imgur.com/Smkim6Vr.png

[2] https://mobilepay.dk/da-dk/Pages/The-story-in-English.aspx

Post reply on HN