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YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

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Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#221

Post by rdiddly »

danieltillett wrote: post #126
alphabettsy wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t a new problem. Women and POC that were hired following affirmative action reported being called “affirmative action hires” and faced workplace discrimination based on the idea that they didn’t deserve the jobs. Maybe they did, maybe they didn’t, but how was the issue of them being denied jobs based on sex or race to be solved otherwise?

You shouldn’t complain about being down voted. To answer your question the issue of discrimination is solved by not discriminating. If women and others are being discriminated against then stop doing this, rather than just start discriminating against other people.

The problem is, there is no way for an organization to tell whether it's succeeding at this, besides looking at the hiring outcomes.

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#222

Post by shiado »

The obvious solution is to just lie when applying to jobs. Anything short of a genetic test to determine your racial origin is unsatisfactory and administering such a test for a job applicant is illegal and for good reason. Can you imagine a Gattaca style world where tech companies require your 23andme profile for diversity purposes? There is no situation where somebody in the application process would talk to you about their concerns you don't match some race you claimed to be a part of. Can you imagine some HR person saying "Um, excuse me but I don't really think you are 1/4 black because your skin looks really white to me". Just pretend your grandparent is some other race and claim mixed race on the application, for all you know you very well may be.

It also brings up an interesting question. Without a genetic profile can you truthfully answer what your race is on a job application? Are there legal implications to answering without concrete knowledge? Without such a test I suppose you can only really call yourself "indeterminate race".

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#223

Post by danso »

throwaway0255 wrote: post #158
danieltillett wrote: post #19

The thing I hate about actions like this is what it does to talented people who fit some diversity quota checklist, both in the perception they have of themselves and those of other people. If you are a talented melanin-rich woman you are going to face both heightened impostor syndrome and dismissal by others that you only got the job because of some quota. Not good for anyone. There are no easy solutions, but it wou…

Tell that to the white and asian males who get rejected on the basis of their race and gender despite having worked their entire lives to be the most qualified and technically adept candidate. I'm pretty sure impostor syndrome is a problem they would love to have. Instead they got the entire course of their careers (and lives) stepped on by bigoted racists and sexists. I know your comment has to be the top one becaus…

The GP was arguing a point that is agreed-upon by many who argue against affirmative action — that the minorities ostensibly helped are harmed in the bigger picture. Yet you rip on the GP for not thinking enough about the whites and Asians who are also the victims of affirmative action? You could be a bit reflexively polarized about this issue.

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#224

Post by sin7 »

spicymaki wrote: post #201
throwaway0255 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell that to the white and asian males who get rejected on the basis of their race and gender despite having worked their entire lives to be the most qualified and technically adept candidate. I'm pretty sure impostor syndrome is a problem they would love to have. Instead they got the entire course of their careers (and lives) stepped on by bigoted racists and sexists. I know your comment has to be the top one becaus…

I am trying to wrap my head around this. The level of black employees at Google is at 2% and actually dropped since 2016. How fair is it to say from a statistical point of view that if you did not get hired, you lost out to a lesser qualified black person and not someone from a white or asian of equal or more qualifications? I pick on the black statistic specifically because at the end of the day the blow back for th…

If you were to accept the current estimates on IQ, where blacks have an average IQ of 85, Hispanics an average IQ of 90, whites an average IQ of 100 and Asians an average IQ of 105 with a standard deviation of 15 by design, and that Youtube only hires people two standard deviations from the mean, then about 2% of employees would be black, 5% Hispanic, 30% white and 63% Asian. I am quite sure that whites are over represented at the expense of Asians.

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#225

Post by [deleted] »

spicymaki wrote: post #201
throwaway0255 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell that to the white and asian males who get rejected on the basis of their race and gender despite having worked their entire lives to be the most qualified and technically adept candidate. I'm pretty sure impostor syndrome is a problem they would love to have. Instead they got the entire course of their careers (and lives) stepped on by bigoted racists and sexists. I know your comment has to be the top one becaus…

I am trying to wrap my head around this. The level of black employees at Google is at 2% and actually dropped since 2016. How fair is it to say from a statistical point of view that if you did not get hired, you lost out to a lesser qualified black person and not someone from a white or asian of equal or more qualifications? I pick on the black statistic specifically because at the end of the day the blow back for th…

[deleted]

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#226

Post by danieltillett »

spicymaki wrote: post #201
throwaway0255 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell that to the white and asian males who get rejected on the basis of their race and gender despite having worked their entire lives to be the most qualified and technically adept candidate. I'm pretty sure impostor syndrome is a problem they would love to have. Instead they got the entire course of their careers (and lives) stepped on by bigoted racists and sexists. I know your comment has to be the top one becaus…

I am trying to wrap my head around this. The level of black employees at Google is at 2% and actually dropped since 2016. How fair is it to say from a statistical point of view that if you did not get hired, you lost out to a lesser qualified black person and not someone from a white or asian of equal or more qualifications? I pick on the black statistic specifically because at the end of the day the blow back for th…

I think you have put your finger on why these programs are bad for everyone. They really help nobody in the long run and create enormous blowback.

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#227

Post by allthenews »

megy wrote: post #153
allthenews wrote: post #98

I really hope that this marks a turning of the tides, because what has been going on in tech, as well as certain non-tech industries, in the name of "diversity," has been nothing short of abhorrent. The doublespeak is inescapable. They claim to stand against racism and sexism, but will not hesitate to discriminate based on race or sex to meet some kind of nonsensical demographic parity targets which are absolutely no…

It is abhorrent to hire one of two very similar people, but prefer the black to overcome the huge bias for white people? In an attempt to redress the 100s of years of imbalance? But it is not abhorrent to treat black people like shit and disclude them from many roles for many years?

Absolutely, but those slights do not justify harming other innocent people. Especially in a business context, where the rationale for hiring is supposed to be about productivity.

And it isn't fair to presume that we benefited from some kind of historic opression based on the color of our skin either - some of us are immigrants, or first or second generation descendants, having faced persecution of our own, pre and post immigration.

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#228

Post by [deleted] »

heurist wrote: post #208
dhf17 wrote: post #199

I grew up in a somewhat cult like church environment. Speaking in tongues, adults laughing uncontrollably on the floor, people falling out after the laying on of hands. Although I respect Christianity and the values it teaches, looking back on my particular church environment, it seemed deep into lunacy territory. What's your point, you might be wondering... The point is at the time it seemed completely normal. Somet…

Guess you haven't watched Fox since you turned the TV back on... Really think you're overstating the positions liberals are putting forward. Also, your comment has no critical disagreement s with the positions themselves so I have to wonder if you're just trolling.

[deleted]

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#229

Post by throwaway005 »

spicymaki wrote: post #214
Const-me wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blind hiring _might_ work: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/28/magazine/is-blind-hiring-... To ignore gender this should be combined with gender-neutral voice processing for phone interviews, but it’s doable and not that hard.

What if the candidate went to Wellesley or Howard? What happens if the person went to university in Africa or Latin America? What if you puts SWE or NSBE on the resume, or obtained a merit-based UNCF scholarship and mentioned that as an achievement? The blind hiring system would fall flat pretty quickly. What happens after the person is hired?

The much maligned tech interview is, ironically, the best tool for blind interviews. It is essentially an audition of technical skill. Blind auditions are used effectively to combat gender bias in a different field, https://www.theguardian.com/women-in-leadership/2013/oct/14/...

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#230

Post by danieltillett »

sin7 wrote: post #224
spicymaki wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am trying to wrap my head around this. The level of black employees at Google is at 2% and actually dropped since 2016. How fair is it to say from a statistical point of view that if you did not get hired, you lost out to a lesser qualified black person and not someone from a white or asian of equal or more qualifications? I pick on the black statistic specifically because at the end of the day the blow back for th…

If you were to accept the current estimates on IQ, where blacks have an average IQ of 85, Hispanics an average IQ of 90, whites an average IQ of 100 and Asians an average IQ of 105 with a standard deviation of 15 by design, and that Youtube only hires people two standard deviations from the mean, then about 2% of employees would be black, 5% Hispanic, 30% white and 63% Asian. I am quite sure that whites are over repr…

This assumes that there are equal number of people in the hiring pool in each category. There is nothing to suggest that the applicants that apply are drawn at random from the population.

Also the absolute numbers of each groups also matter. On this basis we should expect far few Asian and Black employees just on the basis that there are fewer than whites within the USA [0].

0. This is assuming the employee pool is drawn from the USA population.

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