How much money do people need to be happy? • Hacker News Board

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#221

Post by ikeyany » Thu, Mar 01, 2018, 3:11 PM UTC

ProblemFactory wrote: post #177

LaurensBER wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course, stepping from 40K to 100K in salary is practically life altering. Unless you absolutely suck at budgets you can easily get out of debt and start having real vacations. You can afford hobbies, etc. I live in the Netherlands where 40K is quite a reasonable income. I really dont get why you would need 100k to do the things you need. Perhaps people need to become a bit more frugal? People here in general don…

> I live in the Netherlands where 40K is quite a reasonable income. I really dont get why you would need 100k to do the things you need. Perhaps people need to become a bit more frugal? What I have found is that the majority of "happiness from money" comes from the financial security, not actually spending the money. The reduction in stress going from a chronically broke PhD student to having 5 years of living expens…

> It's the knowledge that you can immediately solve almost every problem that pops up with a bit of money, and figure out the details later. Missed your flight? Book another one. Car trouble? Call assistance and take an uber. Lost your job? Take a short vacation and then hit up your network on LinkedIn.

And then your expectations shift, you require more expensive things to acquire that base level of prosperity and satisfaction, and you have a whole new set of problems which feel just as stressful, relatively speaking.

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#222

Post by bitexploder » Thu, Mar 01, 2018, 3:21 PM UTC

ikeyany wrote: post #221

ProblemFactory wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I live in the Netherlands where 40K is quite a reasonable income. I really dont get why you would need 100k to do the things you need. Perhaps people need to become a bit more frugal? What I have found is that the majority of "happiness from money" comes from the financial security, not actually spending the money. The reduction in stress going from a chronically broke PhD student to having 5 years of living expens…

> It's the knowledge that you can immediately solve almost every problem that pops up with a bit of money, and figure out the details later. Missed your flight? Book another one. Car trouble? Call assistance and take an uber. Lost your job? Take a short vacation and then hit up your network on LinkedIn. And then your expectations shift, you require more expensive things to acquire that base level of prosperity and sa…

This is probably not true based on what I have read. Of course some people get stuck on a hedonistic treadmill, but most people don't. I think when you can take time off from work and afford safe living and food is no longer a concern, indulge in hobbies, that is enough for most people to be happy. Studies I read say that experiences will provide longer term happiness over "stuff". You can always jump off the treadmill of needing the next better possession.

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#223

Post by robotresearcher » Thu, Mar 01, 2018, 3:22 PM UTC

koolba wrote: post #203

robotresearcher wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question was “why can’t you automate it?”.

Automate doesn’t have to mean a machine is handling it. It means you don’t have to handle it. Human automation is a valid tool, in particular for things like housework.

Automate usually does mean to use machinery.

I open a car factory. It is fully automated.

See?

Besides, the original question is totally boring if you allow human automation. Of course I can hire someone to do labour. No one needs that explained to them.

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#224

Post by mathgladiator » Thu, Mar 01, 2018, 3:28 PM UTC

LaurensBER wrote: post #161

howeyc wrote: post #17

Kind of makes sense to me, once you get to a point where you're set. That is you can easily afford the main things (housing, food), plus the extras (electronics, vacations, hobbies) you need a much larger income to "move the needle" so to speak. You still need to work 40 hours a week or whatever, and only get X weeks of vacation. Having a 180K salary instead of 150K doesn't change any of these obligations, or change…

> Of course, stepping from 40K to 100K in salary is practically life altering. Unless you absolutely suck at budgets you can easily get out of debt and start having real vacations. You can afford hobbies, etc. I live in the Netherlands where 40K is quite a reasonable income. I really dont get why you would need 100k to do the things you need. Perhaps people need to become a bit more frugal? People here in general don…

So, I think a difficult aspect of frugality is that is borders close with cheapness. Cheapness is a problem, and imagine if all your customers became cheaper and you lost a few. Well, you would have to become more frugal which means firing providers of services. It becomes a negative trend.

I live near Seattle where $100K is probably a reasonable income (give or take $30K).

Now, I make more than that by a large margin where my cash target side of the house is roughly $300K not including stocks. I live pretty well, so what do I do with the extra money?

Well, I trickle down. I have four employees for my house and land. When you not only provide for yourself, but you provide for others then I claim that there is extra happiness to be had. My house keeper, for instance, makes $40K with an average of 20 hours of week, flexible timing, and a monthly stipend for benefits.

You can buy happiness, but only if you spend it on people rather than things.

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#225

Post by mathgladiator » Thu, Mar 01, 2018, 3:33 PM UTC

_dark_matter_ wrote: post #19

howeyc wrote: post #17

Kind of makes sense to me, once you get to a point where you're set. That is you can easily afford the main things (housing, food), plus the extras (electronics, vacations, hobbies) you need a much larger income to "move the needle" so to speak. You still need to work 40 hours a week or whatever, and only get X weeks of vacation. Having a 180K salary instead of 150K doesn't change any of these obligations, or change…

There are still lots of QOL improvements to be made above, say, $150k. It may depend a lot on if you have kids and where you live. This is especially true when compounded with typical retirement savings and kid expenses. For example: - Housekeepers who come often - Paying someone to manage the yard - Private school and college funds for kids - International vacations for the whole family - Paying for family to visit…

I second the housekeeper. I spent $40K on mine last year, and it was the best thing I have ever spent money on. I've done dishes once in the past year, and I generally come home to a made bed. Imagine getting all of that, but then know that you are providing a near livable wage with flexible schedule. She can be a good mom and make money.

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#226

Post by projektir » Thu, Mar 01, 2018, 3:33 PM UTC

ikeyany wrote: post #221

ProblemFactory wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I live in the Netherlands where 40K is quite a reasonable income. I really dont get why you would need 100k to do the things you need. Perhaps people need to become a bit more frugal? What I have found is that the majority of "happiness from money" comes from the financial security, not actually spending the money. The reduction in stress going from a chronically broke PhD student to having 5 years of living expens…

> It's the knowledge that you can immediately solve almost every problem that pops up with a bit of money, and figure out the details later. Missed your flight? Book another one. Car trouble? Call assistance and take an uber. Lost your job? Take a short vacation and then hit up your network on LinkedIn. And then your expectations shift, you require more expensive things to acquire that base level of prosperity and sa…

This seems to be a common assumption but I have not found it to be true in my experience at all. My spending habits appear stagnant and mostly rooted in my childhood experiences, and it's a continual battle to spend more.

There's that idea that giving poor people money will have them just spend it gambling or buying drugs, doesn't seem to be true, either.

A lot of these just sound like justifications to pay people less, or an odd way to shame people for wanting something material. Money is power, and power is always valuable.

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#227

Post by BeetleB » Thu, Mar 01, 2018, 3:43 PM UTC

LaurensBER wrote: post #161

howeyc wrote: post #17

Kind of makes sense to me, once you get to a point where you're set. That is you can easily afford the main things (housing, food), plus the extras (electronics, vacations, hobbies) you need a much larger income to "move the needle" so to speak. You still need to work 40 hours a week or whatever, and only get X weeks of vacation. Having a 180K salary instead of 150K doesn't change any of these obligations, or change…

> Of course, stepping from 40K to 100K in salary is practically life altering. Unless you absolutely suck at budgets you can easily get out of debt and start having real vacations. You can afford hobbies, etc. I live in the Netherlands where 40K is quite a reasonable income. I really dont get why you would need 100k to do the things you need. Perhaps people need to become a bit more frugal? People here in general don…

>I really dont get why you would need 100k to do the things you need. Perhaps people need to become a bit more frugal?

No one said you need it. They're saying at that income a lot of pain points go away. As others pointed out, much of it has to do with a reduction of stress. A lot of small problems can be solved with money. It doesn't mean that people will solve them with money - but knowing that you can eases the brain quite a bit.

And then of course, there's health care. With good employer paid insurance, the deductible for a couple is about $3300. So if you have any kind of chronic medical condition, you'll pay that much each year at least. If your employer did not pay and you had to purchase it (e.g. you are self-employed), it'll cost perhaps $500/mo for the premium, with a deductible anywhere from $6000 to $10K.

>Perhaps people need to become a bit more frugal?

There is that as well. People here tend to change their smartphone every 2 years, and always buy a brand new expensive one. They'll pay a pretty high fee for cable TV. They'll insist on 50-100 Mb/s Internet, when, in my experience, 15Mb/s was fine for a couple (no degradation in quality for services like Netflix). They'll generally pay $15-30K for new or recently new cars. And many people change cars too often.

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#228

Post by robotresearcher » Thu, Mar 01, 2018, 3:43 PM UTC

spodek wrote: post #71

robotresearcher wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Folding laundry. Robots are miserably bad at this, so far.

There are clothes that don't need folding and lifestyles that don't need clothes that need folding.

I wear a suit of armour. Disrupt the folding industry.

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#229

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Thu, Mar 01, 2018, 3:45 PM UTC

LaurensBER wrote: post #161

howeyc wrote: post #17

Kind of makes sense to me, once you get to a point where you're set. That is you can easily afford the main things (housing, food), plus the extras (electronics, vacations, hobbies) you need a much larger income to "move the needle" so to speak. You still need to work 40 hours a week or whatever, and only get X weeks of vacation. Having a 180K salary instead of 150K doesn't change any of these obligations, or change…

> Of course, stepping from 40K to 100K in salary is practically life altering. Unless you absolutely suck at budgets you can easily get out of debt and start having real vacations. You can afford hobbies, etc. I live in the Netherlands where 40K is quite a reasonable income. I really dont get why you would need 100k to do the things you need. Perhaps people need to become a bit more frugal? People here in general don…

It's cultural, I think. In the US, we are very consumer driven. We are bombarded with propaganda constantly telling us that the one thing missing from our lives is whatever that person is selling. Some of those people are selling credit. That wouldn't be so bad, except that Americans are also highly competitive. We hate losing, and someone else having more stuff than us is losing. Our entire measure of the value of a human being is their wealth.

Consequently, many Americans spend nearly everything they make on stuff that ultimately contributes very little, if anything, to their contentment. Since buying those things didn't actually make them happy, they figure they need more money, and more debt, to buy more things. It's a trap we've created for ourselves.

Oh, and our health care system is ridiculously expensive.

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#230

Post by croon » Thu, Mar 01, 2018, 3:46 PM UTC

ivanhoe wrote: post #210

I think the correct definition is: "When you have enough to survive and you make as much money as people you compare yourself with". That's why back in the days of socialism in Eastern Europe most of the people were quite content with being relatively poor, as long as they had the sense of social security and everyone else around them was as poor as them. On the other hand, nowadays many freelancers from poorer count…

Is it possible to reach a point where you won't experience comparison inflation?

After the house it's a bigger house, after the fancy car it's a super fancy car, and then a pilot's license, then co-owning a private plane, then your own one, etc.

When you get enough for the house you move into a new neighborhood where there's always someone richer than you, and when you get enough for that you won't buy his, but a similar one in a fancier neighborhood because you don't want to live with the plebs in the small houses.

This problem can't be solved before we stop measuring ourselves by money. Unfortunately that solution is always paired with being to accomodating on salary negotiations. If I stop caring about money, no one will willingly pay me more, even if I might "deserve it".

I definitely haven't solved it, but my goal is being content with what I have, while not being a doormat, financially. I'm better at the latter than the former.