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The State of Atom's Performance

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Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#221

Post by eagsalazar2 »

mikestew wrote: post #62
nkkollaw wrote: post #24

I do go back to Atom often because of a few details that I like better over VS Code, but it's a lost cause, and reading this proves it. Who cares about start-up time? I only open the thing once/day. Same thing for large files: it's a edge case. Memory usage? Sure, but as developers we probably have GB and GB sitting there, if the thing worked it wouldn't be a big deal for the most important tool in your arsenal. What…

Memory usage? Sure, but as developers we probably have GB and GB sitting there GB and GB which I had hoped to use for running an entirely other operating system, and all of its apps, in a VM, not run a goddamned text editor. And that’s what annoys me about the “so what?”s. Start up time? Even just an update that requires a restart will make me wonder “I’m in the middle of something, how badly do I want this?” Resourc…

Man you are so pissed and condescending. Do they make you use Atom at your work or are you really that angry that other people use an editor you don't like?

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#222

Post by QasimK »

eagsalazar2 wrote: post #217
Khaine wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why has Hacker News become such a hotbed for cynicism, ridicule and snark by which almost none comes constructive ideas? Why would you build a text editor on top of a web browser engine? Who would think that is a good idea?. Of course it is not going to be performant, it is being used for something it was not designed for. On top of that, cross-platform apps built using the one stack are horrible. They never feel e…

Dude you are so off base. Atom for daily driving is not slow at all and on OSX feels perfectly native and well integrated with the OS. So your entire point is dependent on assumptions that the UX sucks and the performance is worse than many native apps, both of which in this case are completely wrong. Please consider going back to the parent post and contrasting that with your way out of bounds response that ends wit…

The last time I tried atom a year ago (for the second time) it was so slow I had to write this to warn my future self: https://github.com/QasimK/my-setup/blob/master/atom.md (Nov 19 2016). This was on a modern powerful desktop.

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#223

Post by c256 »

valarauca1 wrote: post #137
dragonwriter wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Emacs does an “unexec” operation to save its entire memory map to disk so its startup looks faster. The changes Atom is looking at regarding user-side snapshots seems conceptually similar.

This really scares me because the emacs unexec operation has had a ton of safety related bugs.

Also, it’s a portability PITA, and it can be a serious impediment to bringing new developers on-board. Emacs is looking (in the long-term, serious project sense) to replace or remove dumping and unexec if it can.

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#224

Post by espadrine »

nnq wrote: post #213
beckler wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard once that if you're doing something boring to pick an exciting technology. If you're doing something exciting, pick a boring technology. Not sure what you would consider exciting or boring, but I thought it was decent advice.

> If you're doing something exciting, pick a boring technology. Not being exceedingly serious here but... you pretty much summed up why Python is so successful in AI/ML and science ;)

How does that follow?

The boring technology in AI/ML is C++.

Which is why TensorFlow etc. have a boring & hard C++ core, and a lovely & easy Python layer that transmits the computational graph to the core.

Electron is similar: a boring & hard Chromium C++ core, and a lovely & easy JS layer.

What pains me is that there is no reason to include libraries we don't use.

Each Electron embeds a large amount of memory-consuming libraries that do things that are way out of scope for most apps: screen recording, sound editing, GPU graphics libraries…

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#225

Post by whatyoucantsay »

andrewbinstock wrote: post #210
whatyoucantsay wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why has Hacker News become such a hotbed for cynicism, ridicule and snark by which almost none comes constructive ideas? The moderators have almost certainly played a part. Selectively permitting snark from the in-group is easy in the short run, but eventually incurs a cost to the community.

I think the moderators do an excellent job on HN. The signal to noise ratio is pretty high here and while there is snark, there's far less than in most other forums.

One stark difference between HN, Product Hunt, and other maker forums is that HN is a very critical audience. It's even been specifically called out as such by Pieter Levels in his new book, Make.

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#226

Post by c256 »

xemdetia wrote: post #68
Vekz wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would also like further discussion on this. I am full-time emacs. I hear from other colleagues that they will split time between editors. "vim for writing and VSCode for refactoring".

If anything the thing that is a killer feature that I always try to get out of emacs but ends up being half baked is the code completion/code aware tools (like the example given of refactoring). With emacs and yasnippet I can emit a ton of code but if I ever have to do a big surgery and have some level of assurance it's right as I go along is nice and I end up falling back into Eclipse/Visual Studio for those sorts o…

This isn’t really relevant to Atom, but... Emacs is working on this, on several fronts. In many ways, this isn’t (yet) an improvement, because what we have now are a bunch of partial implementations that mostly get different parts ‘right’. On the other hand, progress.

TBH, one of the big stumbling blocks is that a lot of the most adept Emacs hackers simply don’t do much of the sort of ‘IDE-grade’ stuff, so in a real sense, they don’t understand what they (and Emacs) are missing. (Fair cop: I’m largely in this boat myself.)

For example, Emacs has had dynamic adaptive customizable electric hippie completion for longer than there has been a publicly released Java language, BUT many (is it still most? My experience is old) Emacs hackers just never did the sort of refactoring that made people tolerate Eclipse — and that was over a decade ago.

One more thing: if you are interested in lisp, can stand to see C code, and are interested in LSP, look at Emacs-devel.

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#228

Post by ExactoKnight »

natecavanaugh wrote: post #144
jamesmcintyre wrote: post #128

Why has Hacker News become such a hotbed for cynicism, ridicule and snark by which almost none comes constructive ideas? I along with many of my fellow engineers use Atom everyday and love it. Sure it has some shortcomings but if anything this retrospective from the Atom team shows that they're trying to address those shortcomings at a rapid clip. I love that it's an entirely open source system and that it is written…

Personally, Atom is not my editor of choice (team Sublime!), but I really hope Atom succeeds. I do love it's hackability, and I would much rather have my plugins in JS, but alas, it's just not fast enough for me, yet. However I held onto Textmate until 2010 and Sublime wore me down, so I'm a laggard as well. So no negativity from me, because I just want a great editor that I can control and hack on. But I'll be real,…

This may sound like heresy but I seriously encourage checking out today's version of Visual Studio.

I dev on Ruby and I am a hardcore Sublime user, which is about as far away from Microsoft-friendly as you can get, and I have been really impressed by it.

Their app store is advanced, and crucially they allow Visual Studio to be setup with key bindings that match Sublime's, meaning switching over is really easy with almost little to no need to learn new macros. IDE's like Visual Studio can allow you to do code and class refactorings that make Sublime look like a joke.

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#229

Post by ExactoKnight »

_d8fd wrote: post #197
jamesmcintyre wrote: post #128

Why has Hacker News become such a hotbed for cynicism, ridicule and snark by which almost none comes constructive ideas? I along with many of my fellow engineers use Atom everyday and love it. Sure it has some shortcomings but if anything this retrospective from the Atom team shows that they're trying to address those shortcomings at a rapid clip. I love that it's an entirely open source system and that it is written…

Beats me. I use Atom everyday and spend zero time wishing I had a better editor.

Honestly, the strongest text editors are those that integrate with an IDE that also syncs with your runtime.

The kind of debugging and refactorings you can do in that kind of set up are mindblowing, and it took me years of doing it the old vim/sublime/atom way before realizing this.

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#230

Post by emj »

jejrjntkpou wrote: post #150
whatyoucantsay wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why has Hacker News become such a hotbed for cynicism, ridicule and snark by which almost none comes constructive ideas? The moderators have almost certainly played a part. Selectively permitting snark from the in-group is easy in the short run, but eventually incurs a cost to the community.

s/in-group/in-meme Apple products are bad now despite having a pretty similar rate of technical glitches they always did It’s just the changes impact the HN crowd more now so complaining em masse is allowed It’s meme-tribalism No one wants to be the one to have to give up on their meme

This is a wonderful subject, memes and group think, I would say everyone feels like they are part of an minority/snowflake community in some of their views. Memes just makes it easier to get that feeling.

So it is not possible to have these discussions without the out-group interpreting your remarks as snarkiness. Handling that is hard, FUD is one way to handle it, compassion another. Social interactions are hard.

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