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Chrome is Not the Standard

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Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#221

Post by fourthark »

lukeschlather wrote: post #211
SirensOfTitan wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve found a lot of people are quite naively idealistic around browser development. The rendering, JS engines in Firefox and Chrome are state-of-the-art and take small armies to build and maintain. Mozilla has to strike a balance between revenue seeking and consumer protection seeking behavior that I would imagine is quite difficult to maintain. Lots of people here additionally are up in arms their incredibly specifi…

> Lots of people here additionally are up in arms their incredibly specific workflow was upheaveled by a movement to webextensions planned like 2 years in advance. Maybe their incredibly specific workflow involves a piece of multi-million dollar equipment and updating to a new API involves reflashing its firmware for some crazy reason. (alternately, 100 $200 pieces of equipment in hard-to-reach places that must be ma…

That's very... specific?

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#222

Post by user5994461 »

tpush wrote: post #214
NightlyDev wrote: post #169

"Safari ships new features on a much slower cadence, but they’re usually solid and always perform incredibly well" Well, clearly this person doesn't have much experience with web development... The webengine in iOS is the biggest pile of crap I've ever worked with since IE6. "Oh? You want to click this? OK, let's wait for 300 ms just in case you want to double tap to scroll!" "We finally fixed it, no more delay on cl…

Given this it's really a shame that Apple does not allow other browser engines on iOS. Would be a prime opportunity for competition to raise the overall quality level.

Looks like a case for anti trust, just like microsoft had with IE.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#223

Post by jessewmc »

kevmo wrote: post #4

I know they screwed up recently with the Mr. Robot malware, but I think it's really important for developers to get behind Firefox again. As the American government fails to provide any sort of check on its behemoth corporations (Apple, Google, and Microsoft) and to protect consumer privacy, Firefox is basically the last contender for real consumer protection standing.

Political issues aside, firefox is much less usable as a development tool than chrome.

When quantum came out I switched to dev edition to try it out, but I've had nothing but trouble. Page loads of local unbuilt code are 2-3x slower than chrome. Tabs crash with alarming regularity, especially after the most recent update. There is still no way to inspect websocket frames. Form inputs are black text on dark background with the dark theme of developer edition.

At least I can get CSS source maps working, which seems to be impossible in chrome these days. But really that's the only plus for a lot of negatives. I'd love to be using firefox instead of chrome, but after this most recent update I get several tab crashes a day and I've finally given up as it's become a hindrance to productivity. I wish it weren't so.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#224

Post by carlob »

bhawks wrote: post #207

I wish the author discussed the fact that Apple doesn't allow any other browsers to target the iOS platform. Chrome / Firefox are forced to be thin wrappers against the webkit engine instead of bringing their own technology. No other platform has policies like this and it greatly impacts the web platform and changes the dynamic of web standards in a way no other browser developer could.

Me too, but from the brief mention of Chrome being faster on Android than iOS in the article, I'm afraid the author actually believes that there is such a thing as Chrome for iOS.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#225

Post by raguuu »

abiox wrote: post #209
notyourday wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it is - it markets my information to advertisers via its own platform. It is my neighborhood drug dealer, and drug are pretty good - nicely packaged and no one fucks with me when i use its drug delivery service. Mozilla is pretending to be a health store. But we are starting to see that they are also peddling drugs. Not Google drugs - drugs with security and drugs with delivery system and drugs that we are prett…

> it markets my information to advertisers and what other uses?

That is the whole point. You know it does it, fair game. Mozilla is speaking one doing and doing shady things also.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#226

Post by fourthark »

Pharylon wrote: post #39
kevmo wrote: post #4

I know they screwed up recently with the Mr. Robot malware, but I think it's really important for developers to get behind Firefox again. As the American government fails to provide any sort of check on its behemoth corporations (Apple, Google, and Microsoft) and to protect consumer privacy, Firefox is basically the last contender for real consumer protection standing.

"The Mr. Robot Malware?" You mean the extension that did literally nothing unless you turned it on in about:config? That's "malware?"

Sounds like it deliberately appeared to be malware, but wasn't. Which shows a strange and misguided sense of humor.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#227

Post by mintplant »

lukeschlather wrote: post #211
SirensOfTitan wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve found a lot of people are quite naively idealistic around browser development. The rendering, JS engines in Firefox and Chrome are state-of-the-art and take small armies to build and maintain. Mozilla has to strike a balance between revenue seeking and consumer protection seeking behavior that I would imagine is quite difficult to maintain. Lots of people here additionally are up in arms their incredibly specifi…

> Lots of people here additionally are up in arms their incredibly specific workflow was upheaveled by a movement to webextensions planned like 2 years in advance. Maybe their incredibly specific workflow involves a piece of multi-million dollar equipment and updating to a new API involves reflashing its firmware for some crazy reason. (alternately, 100 $200 pieces of equipment in hard-to-reach places that must be ma…

If Mozilla didn't take backwards compatibility seriously then the JS and layout engines in Firefox could be a whooole lot simpler than they are now...

Really, the point of WebExtensions is to establish a well-defined, maintainable API set that can be kept backwards-compatible going forward. Swaths of legacy extensions were already breaking with every release as internal APIs changed. The old system made the e10s (multiprocess) roll-out inordinately more painful and slower than it would have been with WebExtensions, for example.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#228

Post by foobarz »

brians wrote: post #220
EGreg wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What really sucks is that Apple has TENS OF BILLIONS of dollars in cash, and yet can't be bothered to throw a billion at fixing iOS, iOS safari and MacOS bugs. Its quality really went downhill. I really loved the "it just works" stuff of Apple Past. And I loved the intuitive, skeumorphic interfaces. Now it's all crap and HIDDEN MODES - something Apple always spoke against in its UX manuals. It's sad day that Google a…

What reduction in bug rate should we expect for each, day, $100M invested?

Back in time, Microsoft invested heavily in program analysis to fix those hideous BSODs due to broken third-party drivers. It was very successful.

Apple's problem is simpler as they own the code, and bugs are likely to come from understaffed engineering.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#229

Post by jen20 »

user5994461 wrote: post #222
tpush wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given this it's really a shame that Apple does not allow other browser engines on iOS. Would be a prime opportunity for competition to raise the overall quality level.

Looks like a case for anti trust, just like microsoft had with IE.

Why? iOS has by most measures less than 50% of the market.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#230

Post by ori_b »

sowbug wrote: post #94
ori_b wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah. You mean like ActiveX?

Every major browser vendor has a proprietary extensions platform. It's a good thing; it enables innovation and solution-building without needing to leave the web platform entirely. Chrome, Firefox, and Edge have Native Messaging. Safari's extensions platform uses "native APIs and familiar web technologies." Yes, like ActiveX.

In short, nobody is breaking web standards, because they didn't submit their changes to a standards body. Because it's not standardized, it doesn't count as breaking standards.

Now, if they did submit to a standards body, and it got approved, it would be standardized. Therefore, it doesn't count as breaking standards.

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