Interactive Vim tutorial • Hacker News Board

Re: Interactive Vim tutorial

#221

Post by RunawayGalaxy » Fri, Oct 06, 2017, 2:08 AM UTC

lorenzfx wrote: post #74

sevensor wrote: post #53

Alternatively, don't try to hurry enlightenment. First, learn :q! Next h,j,k,l Then i and ESC Finally :w Now you know vim. Don't let people tell you you're using too many keystrokes. Are you still reaching for the mouse? If not, you're using vim just fine. Most of the good stuff in vim, you'll learn accidentally, because you're in normal mode when you think you're in insert mode, or because you have caps lock on in n…

I always recommend 'Your problem with Vim is that you don't grok vi.' to new users starting out in vim [0]. You can never learn about the language of vim too early. [0] https://stackoverflow.com/a/1220118/2131903

That was enlightening. Thanks for sharing!

Re: Interactive Vim tutorial

#222

Post by rmetzler » Fri, Oct 06, 2017, 6:18 AM UTC

Just last week my team and I understood how to select inside and around of brackets.

   vi" - select inside " 
   va{ - select around curly brackets

If you have selected what you want, you're able to yank (y), change (c), delete (d) the selected text.

Re: Interactive Vim tutorial

#223

Post by boomlinde » Fri, Oct 06, 2017, 9:19 AM UTC

mrmondo wrote: post #211

sevensor wrote: post #53

Alternatively, don't try to hurry enlightenment. First, learn :q! Next h,j,k,l Then i and ESC Finally :w Now you know vim. Don't let people tell you you're using too many keystrokes. Are you still reaching for the mouse? If not, you're using vim just fine. Most of the good stuff in vim, you'll learn accidentally, because you're in normal mode when you think you're in insert mode, or because you have caps lock on in n…

As a heavy vim user for 15~ years I don't find h,j,k,l useful and for new users that may be one of the most confusing / alien changes.

I still find them useful, but they're just another navigation tool as opposed to the main navigational commands a newcomer might use them as. There are frequently situations where I can easily move next to the character I want to operate on and adjust the position with h or l.

Re: Interactive Vim tutorial

#224

Post by bradezone » Fri, Oct 06, 2017, 9:34 PM UTC

sevensor wrote: post #53

Alternatively, don't try to hurry enlightenment. First, learn :q! Next h,j,k,l Then i and ESC Finally :w Now you know vim. Don't let people tell you you're using too many keystrokes. Are you still reaching for the mouse? If not, you're using vim just fine. Most of the good stuff in vim, you'll learn accidentally, because you're in normal mode when you think you're in insert mode, or because you have caps lock on in n…

"Mode confusion is a feature, not a bug." Just one reason why vim is the most overrated POS of all time.

Re: Interactive Vim tutorial

#225

Post by geezerjay » Sat, Oct 07, 2017, 3:57 PM UTC

mushishi wrote: post #138

Author here. The tutorial succeeds if it gets people to have a superficial comprehension what Vim is about -- especially for those that have been putting off trying it out in a terminal. That's it. It doesn't really try to make you actually learn Vim. As a tutorial it could be made so much better. I don't have the energy slots for this project. But I feel anxious when I get feedback because I feel like there's some m…

> But I feel anxious when I get feedback because I feel like there's some moral duty to fix the site.

Don't worry, you did an awesome job and the world is a slightly better place because of it.

Re: Interactive Vim tutorial

#226

Post by vram22 » Sat, Oct 07, 2017, 5:15 PM UTC

I would like to read a long and interesting article like this, but for emacs, because I've been mainly a vi/vim guy (on both Unix and Windows) (plus use of various other text editors on Windows (Textpad, Notepad++, Metapad (light use, like a better Notepad), PFE (older, cool one, it could edit really large files), Norton Editor (NE, damn fast one), and some others, but interested in learning about emacs' capabilities.

Re: Interactive Vim tutorial

#227

Post by mushishi » Sat, Oct 07, 2017, 8:27 PM UTC

geezerjay wrote: post #225

mushishi wrote: post #138

Author here. The tutorial succeeds if it gets people to have a superficial comprehension what Vim is about -- especially for those that have been putting off trying it out in a terminal. That's it. It doesn't really try to make you actually learn Vim. As a tutorial it could be made so much better. I don't have the energy slots for this project. But I feel anxious when I get feedback because I feel like there's some m…

> But I feel anxious when I get feedback because I feel like there's some moral duty to fix the site. Don't worry, you did an awesome job and the world is a slightly better place because of it.

Thank you for saying that, I'll try not to.

Re: Interactive Vim tutorial

#228

Post by thomasahle » Sat, Oct 07, 2017, 8:28 PM UTC

straygeek wrote: post #83

thinkpad20 wrote: post #71

I've tried learning Vim several times, but the need to switch modes and back for cursor movement has been a huge turnoff, especially considering the location of the ESC key. It seems to just conflict with the way that I type, where I am frequently jumping my cursor around in the middle of text editing, which is effortless in Emacs. Maybe mastering Vim is not just about memorizing key combos but about changing your co…

I feel the same way. vim is optimized for editing text rather than writing new text. The assumption is that we are editing existing text more often than writing new text when coding.

I don't even remember how to do this common things, if not in vim. How do you swap two lines? Something like "Home", "Shift+End", Ctrl +X", "Up", "Ctrl + V"? Or with the mouse?

Re: Interactive Vim tutorial

#229

Post by shmerl » Sun, Oct 08, 2017, 2:21 AM UTC

Analog24 wrote: post #198

shmerl wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I simply find those keys for navigation awkward and out of place. Habits play a role here.

It's hugely inefficient to have to pick up your hand every time you want to move the cursor (assuming you're a developer and spend a significant amount of time in a text editor). If you don't want to learn a new tool to improve efficiency that's one thing but saying that it's out of place to use the 'hjkl' keys for navigation is pretty misguided.

Efficient enough for me. And yes, for me those keys are out of place for navigation.

Re: Interactive Vim tutorial

#230

Post by asmdev » Fri, Oct 13, 2017, 2:42 AM UTC

movedx wrote: post #185

foo101 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It gives you access to keyboard shortcuts for moving around ... Your whole comment can be dismissed easily because of this one gross misunderstanding. Vim is not a bunch of weird keyboard shortcuts. If one approaches Vim as an editor that uses keyboard shortcuts that are inconsistent with every other editor out there, then one is simply setting themselves up for pain and unproductivity. Vim is not a bunch of keyboa…

It's an interactive editing language... that I'll never use and still be as productive as you.

No, you won't be as productive as me.

The fact that you were not aware how Vim is different than other editor (editing language vs. keyboard shortcuts) shows that you use your current editor as a macro for keyboard shortcuts rather than something you can talk to with little verbs and nouns and combine them into complex editing instructions with ease.

There is no way you can match my speed and productivity of editing and refactoring code with that kind of approach to editors.