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IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

nytimes.com

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Re: IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

#221

Post by thisisit »

likelynew wrote: post #210
GordonS wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those numbers are far too high - it's extremely rare to find anyone who will pay those wages, even in tier 1 cities for experienced candidates. By way of comparison, plenty of people in the UK entering their first IT job would make less than the equivalent of 25,00,000!

I am studying in college that has is not known by most people in India, and the official average here is around 18 LPA. I have the stats from the placement unit of our college. For IITB and BITS Pilani, I can confirm from friends it's around 27 LPA. This is one public stat I can find: http://www.selaqui.org/iit-jee/placement.php . Average is 24.67 LPA for CS, and it's from 2011-12. I don't know why you reacted with s…

That is because you are looking at a cherry picked data to make your point. From the link: The department-wise average and highest salaries are shown below. The overall average and highest salaries stand at 8.98 LPA and 68.5 LPA respectively.

So the average salary is 8.98 lakh. Unlike what you might like to believe there are many non-IT people working in IT, specially in places like IBM. So their salary will be even lower than 8.98 lakhs.

Re: IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

#222

Post by chrshawkes »

I find it disturbing as an American software developer that Americans (mostly) created companies like IBM and all their products, but since IBM has basically missed the boat on every major technological breakthrough over the last 30 years it's no wonder they are doing anything they can to stop the death spiral. I hope IBM goes out of business as quickly as possible and before that happens they should move their HQ to India.

Is it time to start talking about unionizing software developers? To protect their jobs, creative freedoms and the rampant ageism that exists in Silicon Valley?

Re: IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

#223

Post by GordonS »

likelynew wrote: post #210
GordonS wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those numbers are far too high - it's extremely rare to find anyone who will pay those wages, even in tier 1 cities for experienced candidates. By way of comparison, plenty of people in the UK entering their first IT job would make less than the equivalent of 25,00,000!

I am studying in college that has is not known by most people in India, and the official average here is around 18 LPA. I have the stats from the placement unit of our college. For IITB and BITS Pilani, I can confirm from friends it's around 27 LPA. This is one public stat I can find: http://www.selaqui.org/iit-jee/placement.php . Average is 24.67 LPA for CS, and it's from 2011-12. I don't know why you reacted with s…

I reacted with such disbelief because I know many people that work for big consultancies such as Capgemini, Cognizant and Infosys, and even in tier 1 and 2 cities with 10+ years' experience they don't make that much. Hell, many consultancies bill their EU and US clients less than those figures!

I also hire directly for our own office in Mumbai from time-to-time, so I know that market rates are.

Just look at any jobs board - even for experienced devs, its rare to find such high paying jobs, e.g.

http://www.timesjobs.com/jobs-in-mumbai/it-jobs

Re: IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

#225

Post by chrshawkes »

atarian wrote: post #48
timthelion wrote: post #5

I think that this is a good example of how racism, conscious and unconscious is making us worse at predicting the future. Ten years ago, so many Americans were making jokes about poor quality Indian code and Indian accents. The idea of Indians actually working innovative jobs seemed laughable to many Americans. But there wasn't actually strong evidence that Indians were less good at doing cutting edge research. This…

>Ten years ago, so many Americans were making jokes about poor quality Indian code and Indian accents. The idea of Indians actually working innovative jobs seemed laughable to many Americans. As someone who grew up in America during that time, this is the exact opposite that I was told by the media and teachers. We were taught that Indians were just as effective (if not more) than people working in the US and that we…

Exactly for the last 20 years it seems (through ignorance) many non-programmers associate a programmer (even in America) with automatically being Indian.

Re: IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

#226

Post by thisisit »

vram22 wrote: post #204
blizkreeg wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're getting a little defensive here. IBM was one of the crown jewels of American industry. It was an iconic company in its time. The fact that it now employs more people in India than the US is something to ponder. It isn't so much about the merits of outsourcing. Everything can be done cheaper by getting it done in another part of the world. Should it be? Sometimes the answer is yes, at other times, not. Imagine…

I'm not fully arguing against your point, but would just like to make one observation: IBM has been laying off people in the US (and maybe elsewhere too) for several years, every now and then. I have been in the software field for many years now, and have been reading the industry news for a long time, that's how I know it. I remember even way back, I used to read the news in Indian and foreign IT magazines, every no…

IBM laid off 5k workers in India this year: http://profit.ndtv.com/news/tech-media-telecom/article-ibm-i...

Re: IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

#227

Post by seanmcdirmid »

pm90 wrote: post #194
gozur88 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the classic real estate bubble.

In countries of > 1 billion people who are racing towards development, the real estate bubble just goes on and on. Even in smaller cities, real estate is seen as a very profitable investment as even more people make the rural to urban transition, jacking up demand to stratospheric levels.

In china, people are banking on urbanization: because poor farmers are really going to be able to afford a small apartment in the city for $1 million. Really.

Re: IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

#228

Post by chrshawkes »

padiyar83 wrote: post #50
timthelion wrote: post #5

I think that this is a good example of how racism, conscious and unconscious is making us worse at predicting the future. Ten years ago, so many Americans were making jokes about poor quality Indian code and Indian accents. The idea of Indians actually working innovative jobs seemed laughable to many Americans. But there wasn't actually strong evidence that Indians were less good at doing cutting edge research. This…

>> By not paying a competitive salary, those IBM offices in India are lacking the deep experience of western programmers. 1. IBM offices and most multinationals do pay competitive salary in India. We have the same problem with retaining talent in India that we have in US. Its hard to retain good programmers. 2.Thanks to US immigration system, you do find a lot of folks with deep experience working for firms in US for…

But those policies derived from American companies. Say Indian Programmers takes those policies and apply them, will they become the next trend setters in the entire IT industry or will smaller engineering companies continue to set the trends and standards in the USA?

I'm still banking on American workers to prove these companies wrong via innovation from within our borders, boycotting software companies who offshore American innovation and unionize or something to that effect to protect American workers here.

My thoughts are not about race, creed, religion or anything against India or Indian Programmers, it's about protecting American workers for American families here and in the future.

Re: IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

#229

Post by taysic »

timthelion wrote: post #5

I think that this is a good example of how racism, conscious and unconscious is making us worse at predicting the future. Ten years ago, so many Americans were making jokes about poor quality Indian code and Indian accents. The idea of Indians actually working innovative jobs seemed laughable to many Americans. But there wasn't actually strong evidence that Indians were less good at doing cutting edge research. This…

> Ten years ago, so many Americans were making jokes about poor quality Indian code and Indian accents. The idea of Indians actually working innovative jobs seemed laughable to many Americans. But there wasn't actually strong evidence that Indians were less good at doing cutting edge research.

Where are you getting this info from? I have grown up in America and never heard of this.

Re: IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S

#230

Post by [deleted] »

timthelion wrote: post #183
godzilla82 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry you are so wrong. What do you consider infrastructure? I have lived in the bay area and in Bangalore, I have no idea how you can even compare them in terms of roads, city planning, utilities agencies, Civic agencies etc. I think the exchange rate of your country's currency allows you to stay at top tier places when you visit India, that's why you'd experience India differently than Indians.

Living in Prague, I visited the Bay Area recently. I've never felt more like I was in a 3rd world country. Not even when I was in the norther Czech Republic which is in REALLY bad shape. I mean, have you been to oakland? The place looks like a war zone.

[deleted]
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