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China's Central Bank Bans ICOs

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Re: China's Central Bank Bans ICOs

#221

Post by sanxiyn »

shubb wrote: post #38
lsd5you wrote: post #35

People will see the authoritarian aspect of this, but in my view the Chinese are particularly vulnerable to financial scams for cultural reasons. - They have recent communist history/lack experience of crashes/associated fraud. - Traditionally they actually worship money - By burning fake money. - MLM scams are popular (at least in Taiwan). - When I watched a video by Andreas - that Bitcoin guy - the audience (in US)…

>> They have ... lack experience of crashes/associated fraud. The Asian financial crisis was all these things.

Asian financial crisis of 1997 didn't affect China much.

Re: China's Central Bank Bans ICOs

#222

Post by tim333 »

Tepix wrote: post #67
unkown-unknowns wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> https://uetoken.com/ Did they actually do an "ICO" or was it showing as "finished" from the get-go? Let's find out! 30 seconds later. https://web.archive.org/web/20170627123240/https://uetoken.c... https://etherchain.org/account/0xbe5c1c298d0088886146a906cdf... So they did but apparently nobody sent them any money, unless they also used some other addresses. Another 60 seconds after that. Actually they have a link…

I think he got around $90,000 USD out of it.

$62750 according to his twitter https://twitter.com/uetoken?lang=en

Re: China's Central Bank Bans ICOs

#223

Post by girvo »

throwawaybbqed wrote: post #211
igorgue wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're still free to give your friend 10k for a startup. Uh? As a gift but not an investment on his company, that's illegal if you're not accredited.

What? I can't take 10K from my parents/friends and give them equity?

Don't quote me on this, but there's a specific-ish exemption for family/friends if I recall correctly.

Re: China's Central Bank Bans ICOs

#224

Post by rothbardrand »

cyphar wrote: post #192
rothbardrand wrote: post #147

Why don't rich people need protection? Here's the answer: this is their protection. It reduces their competition. Seriously, these securities rules keep people like me from investing in AirBnB and Uber (two that I caught very early and wanted into)... but we can all go to Vegas and lose $100k in a single weekend. But putting $10k into Uber's seed round is somehow a crime I need to be protected from? Truth of the matt…

It ultimately comes down to what flavour of politics you subscribe to. The key question is whether you think that the public should be protected against the abuses of the free market, or if the free market should be a complete free-for-all. For example, Dodd-Frank solved a concrete problem, and there have been countless studies that show it it responsible for stabilizing the US economy. But ultimately, wanting to die…

Those "studies" are self serving. That is the political propaganda keeping you feeling safe in having your rights violated. This isn't a question of flavor of politics- but fundamental rights. Do you have freedom of association or not?

Secondly, you think its "fairly clear to [you]" that these ICOs are scams. I am sure some are, but I know for a fact that many are not. I am quite capable of telling the difference (as a blockchain engineer.)

The presumption that every startup failing is "people being swindled out of their money" is very odd one for a discussion forum run by y-combinator.

Is y-combinator being swindled when an investment fails?

And you're still sidestepping the point:

It's my right to apply my own discernment to what are good and what are bad investments. Not people who don't know the difference between SHA1 and SHA2.

Re: China's Central Bank Bans ICOs

#225

Post by rothbardrand »

throwawaybbqed wrote: post #211
igorgue wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're still free to give your friend 10k for a startup. Uh? As a gift but not an investment on his company, that's illegal if you're not accredited.

What? I can't take 10K from my parents/friends and give them equity?

It's highly limited. If you have 300 friends you can't take $10k from each, unless they are accredited.

Re: China's Central Bank Bans ICOs

#226

Post by chinathrow »

rothbardrand wrote: post #224
cyphar wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It ultimately comes down to what flavour of politics you subscribe to. The key question is whether you think that the public should be protected against the abuses of the free market, or if the free market should be a complete free-for-all. For example, Dodd-Frank solved a concrete problem, and there have been countless studies that show it it responsible for stabilizing the US economy. But ultimately, wanting to die…

Those "studies" are self serving. That is the political propaganda keeping you feeling safe in having your rights violated. This isn't a question of flavor of politics- but fundamental rights. Do you have freedom of association or not? Secondly, you think its "fairly clear to [you]" that these ICOs are scams. I am sure some are, but I know for a fact that many are not. I am quite capable of telling the difference (as…

> Secondly, you think its "fairly clear to [you]" that these ICOs are scams. I am sure some are, but I know for a fact that many are not. I am quite capable of telling the difference (as a blockchain engineer.)

The average Joe and Jane on Instagram/Twitter/FB can simply not tell if it's a scam or not what e.g. Paris Hilton is advertising.

Heck, I'm a sw dev too - and I have a hard time figuring out why some of the ICOs need their own token at all. Simple offer what you sell (e.g. legal services for a certain market) directly and let them pay as they wish. Absolutely no need for a blockchain to achieve things.

Re: China's Central Bank Bans ICOs

#227

Post by rothbardrand »

anilshanbhag wrote: post #214
rothbardrand wrote: post #147

Why don't rich people need protection? Here's the answer: this is their protection. It reduces their competition. Seriously, these securities rules keep people like me from investing in AirBnB and Uber (two that I caught very early and wanted into)... but we can all go to Vegas and lose $100k in a single weekend. But putting $10k into Uber's seed round is somehow a crime I need to be protected from? Truth of the matt…

The problem is that companies doing ICOs aren't Uber. Peek your head into /r/ethtrader. You will find people putting their retirement savings, mortgaging houses, etc and these people aren't technically savvy and can be easily taken for a ride. While you might have good apples, there are going to be tons of bad apples, people just coming with a white paper and asking for millions of dollars. Coming back to your questi…

That's your presumption. You think they aren't technically savvy. Hell, I think some of them aren't myself, but it's not my right, and it's not your right, to say what they can or cannot do with their property.

And a lot of those non-"savvy" people have outperformed me, for instance by buying ETH at the ICO.

You guys keep presuming that the only choice is "people losing all their money" and that these regulations stop that.

The reality is, these regulations keep the poor people poor, not keep them from losing all their money.

As I have pointed out, you can go to Las Vegas and lose all your savings in a weekend.

That dog don't hunt.

Re: China's Central Bank Bans ICOs

#228

Post by rothbardrand »

TrevorAustin wrote: post #209
rothbardrand wrote: post #147

Why don't rich people need protection? Here's the answer: this is their protection. It reduces their competition. Seriously, these securities rules keep people like me from investing in AirBnB and Uber (two that I caught very early and wanted into)... but we can all go to Vegas and lose $100k in a single weekend. But putting $10k into Uber's seed round is somehow a crime I need to be protected from? Truth of the matt…

It ... sounds like you wouldn't have any trouble getting accredited?

Lets assume I am accredited.

This isn't about me getting mine.

This is about the fact that the regulations deny you a chance to join me.

Re: China's Central Bank Bans ICOs

#229

Post by mehh »

I'm not surprised, even some basic analysis on the ICOs such as Civic raise a lot of alarm bells.

Will be very interested to see in the next couple of years how many of these projects still exist.

Re: China's Central Bank Bans ICOs

#230

Post by rothbardrand »

airza wrote: post #168
rothbardrand wrote: post #147

Why don't rich people need protection? Here's the answer: this is their protection. It reduces their competition. Seriously, these securities rules keep people like me from investing in AirBnB and Uber (two that I caught very early and wanted into)... but we can all go to Vegas and lose $100k in a single weekend. But putting $10k into Uber's seed round is somehow a crime I need to be protected from? Truth of the matt…

Remember when you could do kickstarters with simulated renders of your product and everyone got scammed constantly? It's because of that

Never happened. Some kick starters didn't deliver, but you're factually wrong-- these laws have existed for decades before Kickstarter started-- and you ignore my point. You can lose your life savings in a weekend in Las Vegas and nobody bats an eye.
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