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Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

where.coraline.codes

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Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#221
post #6

Am I reading this correctly? Fired for lack of empathetic communication? Is that really a thing?

Yes. I had to have a manager fire a person because they repeatedly yelled at others on video conferences, etc. I've seen others performance planned for being complete jerks to others on a repeated basis. Please remember that no amount of genius should make up for being an asshole. Some companies don't take this to heart, for sure, but those that actually want a good culture, do. So yeah, regardless of this case (i do…

I've seen two people fired for being difficult to work with before.

One was very critical of other peoples' work, and would not take criticism well herself. She would make everything very personal. Despite being a junior engineer with limited experience or seniority, she would criticize more senior peoples' work in highly personal ways. Think "how could you be so stupid as to write this garbage" instead of "this is bad code". One day she received constructive criticism from her team lead (one of the nicest guys I've ever met) and instead of accepting it, she dug in and insulted him. He stood his ground and refused to +1 the PR without her change. He escalated it to his manager. She was given a formal warning. A week later she made another personal attack-as-criticism and was fired later that day.

The other was an obsessive perfectionist. He would withhold +1s from PRs until they were perfect. Given that these were PRs on existing systems, this meant in practice that if you modified code in a poorly-written existing file, he would refuse to +1 it until the entire file was rewritten, ground-up, to be high quality. One day, his dragging his heels turned a four hour ticket into a week-long tar pit. This caused an important deadline to slip. The next day he was let go.

----

In both cases they were cool people who I really liked. The first person was one of my closest friends in the office at the time. She was really cool, and while she was kind of abrasive, for the most part it was just like RMS-lite style assholitry. Nothing that out of the ordinary. The second guy, he may have been an obsessive perfectionist but his code was _perfect_. The stuff he wrote was by far the best anybody on our teams did.

But teams are more than the sum of their parts. These people might have been good individually, but their being hard to work with caused the whole team to suffer. So they got fired.

Maybe it's not super fair to them. Maybe they have their baggage or there's a culture shock (She was recent immigrant from China, he from Austria). But at the end of the day we are paid lots and lots of money to do important work, and if people are causing significant obstacles to us getting our jobs done, they're going to lose theirs. That's life

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#222
post #6

Am I reading this correctly? Fired for lack of empathetic communication? Is that really a thing?

You can be fired for just about any reason in the United States. Now, if you're asking whether or not "lack of empathetic communication" is a real thing worth firing somebody over, that depends. Certainly interpersonal abuse is something that can happen and can rise to the level where it becomes a good reason to fire somebody. In this case, we largely do not see most of the communication that took place. We really on…

> You can be fired for just about any reason in the United States.

Not generally true, it varies on a state by state basis.

It _is_ generally true of California tho, so carry on

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't get the one-way street at all. In my (limited) experience, one-way streets like this happen because the other party either never starts talking to you, or because they shut down the conversation at some point.

> or because they shut down the conversation at some point. That's the vibe I got from her post (that the conversation just stopped at a certain point), but that's really my point; in adult, human interactions, if you behave in ways that people find unacceptable, people can and will at one point simply say, "I've had enough" and shut down further dialogue because they do not find communicating with you to be construc…

You're correct about this, so, let me be clearer: In my experience, they ghost; or they start ghosted.

Yes, there's a point at which you're completely justified in shutting down further dialogue because you do not find the communication constructive or productive. That point is after you have said that you do not find the communication constructive or productive.

(It sounds like your impression from the OP is that they didn't ghost too early; I didn't form an impression about that, but your take sounds reasonable.)

There's a flipside to your (correct) point about "that's not just how the world works"; basically, if you find yourself "having to accept my approach and just deal with it", are you sure you're not yourself requiring me to adopt to your communication modalities? Why are you sure you're not telling me to accept it and deal with you?

If I prefer directness and you prefer obliqueness, who is correct, and why?

(I find dealing with subtext and other "implies" to be the bad, evasive attitude - why would I have to accept it?).

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#224

This is not a comment on the experiences described in the article, but it makes me extremely sad that the word "meritocratic/meritocracy" is used pejoratively, almost as if it were damning in itself. To me, meritocracy is something to be cherished, being far preferable to the systems that came before it, and being inherently anti -discriminatory. (Yes, people's hardships which prevent them achieving their full potent…

Perhaps it's because research coming out of MIT & Indiana University suggests that calling a company a "meritocracy" makes it less meritocratic: https://dspace.mit.edu/openaccess-disseminate/1721.1/65884

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#225

The main thing I've taken away from the whole github situation is that, as a tech company, you should just entirely stay away from public involvement in the social justice sphere. That doesn't mean exclusively hiring white men and sending out Kalanick-style emails; it means keeping your work environment as professional and politically neutral as possible unless absolutely necessary. My employer does a good job of thi…

And of course, many of the products we code are inherently political. It is no more possible for a social network like Github to be "politically neutral" than it would be possible for a bank to be "security neutral".

Hence the qualifier "absolutely necessary." For example, harassment is bad, period. Github did the right thing in taking steps to address it by forming a team of developers to address harassment vectors.

That said, it might not have been the best idea to frame harassment in the context of the wider social justice movement. It may or may not fall into that group (depending on what you believe) and I'm not trying to argue whether it does or doesn't; what I am saying is that regardless, it might not actually be a good idea to inject politics into this situation. Nobody would say that preventing harassment is bad, but you will piss people off by injecting larger narratives into the issue.

If I could summarize, I guess I'm saying "go easy on the intersectionality."

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#226

The main thing I've taken away from the whole github situation is that, as a tech company, you should just entirely stay away from public involvement in the social justice sphere. That doesn't mean exclusively hiring white men and sending out Kalanick-style emails; it means keeping your work environment as professional and politically neutral as possible unless absolutely necessary. My employer does a good job of thi…

Those consequences are only present for women or people of color: white men don't take the same reputation hit for promoting diversity and fairness: https://hbr.org/2016/03/women-and-minorities-are-penalized-f...

Sorry, could you clarify what you mean by "those consequences"?

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#227
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're saying: > no context as to whether or not those things were the metrics by which her performance was being measured But per the blog post: > Based on the positive feedback from my one-on-ones and how well I was tracking against the goals set for the next engineering level, I was hopeful of getting a promotion and a raise. I'm confused as to how one could be "tracking against the goals set for the next engineer…

That's addressed later by her boss: > I brought up the fact that we had been actively working on improving that over the past several months and that I had been tracking well against the goals we agreed to, but she said that the review period was only through January so that progress didn't count. So, the "tracking well" was in a 4 month span not in the review period. Here's another question: Why were weekly one-on-o…

I guess the other issue is why was the review happening 4 months after the period ended, especially if they had started working on improvements in the meantime. What was the point of all that work / those improvements, if they were just going to ignore it because it wasn't in the "correct period?"

Shouldn't the review have happened closer to the end of the period, so that all of that progress could be part of improvement?

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not denying that you've worked in places where HR convinced line managers that PIPs were a "legitimate" management tool. But I am saying that in making that decision, HR at those places exhibited incompetence: they left a reasonable developer with significant professional experience in a position to wonder whether continuing to work on that team was rational. More on-point for the thread: I don't think it's reaso…

"But I am saying that in making that decision, HR at those places exhibited incompetence: they left a reasonable developer with significant professional experience in a position to wonder whether continuing to work on that team was rational." I'm going to strongly disagree with this one, but it's clear you and i will not agree about this. "More on-point for the thread: I don't think it's reasonable to argue that some…

Fair enough! You've forgotten more about managing devs than I ever plan to know. Just don't be surprised that there's a pretty big chunk of the profession that will make this assumption about PIPs.

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happened to me at my last job - there were a bunch of us in a celebrated cocoon, and then everything fell apart when it was breached. It wasn't about undesirable people, it was about undesirable management influences; whiplash from constantly changing projects and reorgs, moving goal posts, etc etc. It definitely came with it's fair share of problems. We were trying to isolate ourselves from the craziness in the…

It sounds like you felt it was a net-positive experience. Is there anything you'd want to do differently next time (i.e. to avoid the crash)?

Oh 'doh, I got my GP comments mixed up :P

Definitely a net-positive. We should have done more outreach and attempts to bring people into our way-less-drama bubble; but if the theories that the other groups were jealous of our successes was true, it might have accelerated our demise.

Ditto for being clearer with upper management why were liking the isolation.

I think there's an catch-22 problem tho: Anything we could have done would have just been political in some way, which would have been contributing to the drama.

Possibly the appropriate middle ground is to clearly and consistently seek feedback and share successes with the top of our management chain; avoid the politics of multi-person, but keep the awareness that we're doing well and will continue to do so with those that make the decisions about whether we'd get to keep going that way.

--

Original response:

It was definitely a net-positive; I got out (I was encouraged to get out by people I trust and respect) before it had a chance to properly explode, and there's a lot I'd have done differently.

Probably the most valuable skill is recognizing that you're in a tailspin; a good way to notice this is failing to achieve your own core values. In my case, people were feeling unheard; I pride myself on listening skills, so that should have been a pretty serious red flag. If you're sucking at stuff you really care about, something's pretty wrong.

I would have liked to have the presence of mind and skill to directly address the meta-problem; but that might have just backfired more, since I gathered that my directness was part of the issue.

So in that case, just bailing earlier. Make sure you don't stick around past the point where the bridges are burned; I'm a little past that, since I don't feel good when I think about going back, but I know I can.

The other option (which was one I was encouraged to take, that then turned into a full departure) was to take a sabbatical. I probably set down 70% of the baggage in the first month, which might have been enough to make a successful comeback - at least in attitude. (There's other complicating factors).

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling a comment transphobic in no way implies that the speaker of that comment is transhpobic. It is a description of what's been said. The same way if someone was to say something that could possibly be construed as racist. If someone points that out and says hey that statement is racist, that's not calling that person racist. They might be. They might not, but that statement in and of itself implies no assertion…

Intent is the difference between being transphobic and being ignorant. The survey question was ignorant.

How silly it sounds to anthropomorphize the question that way should tell you that you are wrong in this case. A question doesn't have a brain to be ignorant with, nor does it have intentions of any sort: once someone has written it down, it just is.

In TDD, do we talk about a unit test succeeding because I intended for it to fail and it did? No, we say it failed because the actual result is red. I didn't fail, but the test sure did.

Intention doesn't change the impact of communication; if the intent doesn't match the actual outcome, what it means is that the author probably wanted to change it.

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