Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse • Hacker News Board

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#221

Post by valuearb » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 6:26 PM UTC

quickben wrote: post #190

TulliusCicero wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, and I bet after Borders shuts down, you'll see Amazon raise book prices sky-high! People always claim this will happen, and it never seems to. If Uber tripled prices, a competitor would start up to cut into their market share.

But he isn't wrong. Uber will raise prices after subsidy stops.

I doubt Uber's US market is subsidized much, if at all. The financial analysis that's been done can't break down the cost of investment in international markets and new businesses from actual operating costs in the US ride share market.

Uber's service costs pennies per ride to provide, drivers pay them dollars per ride to participate. There is almost no chance Uber can't be profitable at current prices. The only question is whether prices need to rise to ensure a decent supply of drivers.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#222

Post by valuearb » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 6:29 PM UTC

acchow wrote: post #108

tstactplsignore wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Whether it's for the better or worse simply doesn't matter Yikes- I have only a little sympathy for the taxi industry, but it is very scary that you do not believe we should be concerned with whether market forces improve society or not. I think it is extremely important to the vast majority of people that any enormous change in transportation occurs for the benefit of society - the ideology that capitalism is an en…

> I think it is extremely important to the vast majority of people that any enormous change in transportation occurs for the benefit of society There's a lot of people who would disagree with you. They are called libertarians. What matters first and foremost is freedom - individual freedoms should not be overridden for the sake of improving society.

How can society improve by having less freedom?

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#223

Post by valuearb » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 6:34 PM UTC

FullMtlAlcoholc wrote: post #195

basseq wrote: post #3

I'm left wondering... so what? The "personal transportation" market has massively changed. Whether it's for the better or worse simply doesn't matter . Veteran Chicago cabbie John Aikins,67, who is facing foreclosure on two medallions for which he owes more than $330,0000, said he has little hope that the industry can be saved. "It feels like the city is just watching us collapse," Aikins said. "Right now, there are…

> I'm left wondering... so what? Well, ~10,000 people, mostly male, are going to be left not only unemployed, but heavily indebted. That combination cannot be good for social stability. If you are a resident of Chicago, you should care. This problem won't go quietly into the night. > The government in no way insured that medallions would be a winning business investment. People who recently took out loans to purchase…

This is bs. Entrepreneurs go bankrupt all the time, it's the "creative destruction" part of capitalism, risk and reward. And 10,000 people in the chicago would be a drop in the bucket.

But it's not 10,000 people. Lots of those medallions are owned by businesses, and they leased the medallions to drivers. Most drivers can switch to Uber/Lyft if they have or want to buy their own cars, or get other jobs. Driving a cab wasn't lucrative, the owners of the medallions were the ones reaping the monopoly profits.

The best part of the shattering of these monopolies was the lesson it gives others investing in government shielded businesses. Hopefully they will fear their own bankruptcies soon.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#224

Post by jbmorgado » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 6:34 PM UTC

webwanderings wrote: post #71

All Chicago taxicab drivers are driving Uber, Lyft and anything else running on the smart phones. The people who invested and saved through government backed medallion business, are loosing. Don't fool yourself in thinking that the stranger you're sitting in Uber with, could potentially be your co-worker. He's your former cab driver.

The difference is that when my former cab driver sits to drive an Uber/Lyft he knows he will be rated at the end and he also knows he can't rip me off in the fare or refuse to pass a receipt in the end.

Most of all, is the accountability I care for. The accountability that he didn't had to care about as a taxi driver but that cares very much when he drives an Uber.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#225

Post by criddell » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 6:34 PM UTC

abalashov wrote: post #166

brazzy wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the thing - without the artificial entry barriers like medallions, if they do that then a competitor like Lyft can show up and undercut them very quickly.

Well. Sort of. I wouldn't underestimate the complexity of all the logistics and automation required to deliver this consistently, reliably, and at a large scale, not to mention network effects, market saturation, getting to critical mass, etc.

It's not getting any harder though.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#226

Post by criddell » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 6:36 PM UTC

gehwartzen wrote: post #149

clock_tower wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber broke the taxi laws and dared regulators to stop them -- and they mostly won that dare. (Remember all that talk about disruption?)

Couldn't medallion holders then sue whomever issues them since they aren't enforcing the rules/terms under which they were originally sold?

They did and the 7th circuit ruled that the businesses were different enough that they can be regulated differently. The supreme court declined to hear the case, so that's how it was left.

It's the last two paragraphs of the article.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#227

Post by valuearb » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 6:39 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #126

basseq wrote: post #3

I'm left wondering... so what? The "personal transportation" market has massively changed. Whether it's for the better or worse simply doesn't matter . Veteran Chicago cabbie John Aikins,67, who is facing foreclosure on two medallions for which he owes more than $330,0000, said he has little hope that the industry can be saved. "It feels like the city is just watching us collapse," Aikins said. "Right now, there are…

That man took out a loan for a medallion, with the idea that he should be able to sell it once he retires. The medallion is now worthless. If Chicago cares about the cabbies, individual owners should be paid dollar for dollar the value of those medallions, even if no one else will buy them in the future. (Does Chicago buy back the medallions, or do you have to have to sell them to someone else? Is the 300,000 the mar…

He gambled that the cities artificial monopoly would last so he could continue to gouge consumers until retirement. In fact, he gambled the monopoly would stay strong so medallion prices would increase so he could reap a secondary monopoly profit by selling his medallions.

The fact that medallions, which originally cost far less than $300,000, shot up to that price is solely because of the money they allowed you to grift from chicagos citizens. Now you think those citizens should be punished again to pay more taxes in order to redeem the speculators medallions at their highest historical price?

My guess is that if medallions changed hands at $300K, that meant that they could be leased out to cabbies for over $30K a year. That's the monopoly profits the system created for them.

We never should have bailed out the banks without much harsher terms. But politicians were worried about financial collapse. There is no worry about that here, this is objectively good for the economy and the country.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#228

Post by valuearb » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 6:39 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #126

basseq wrote: post #3

I'm left wondering... so what? The "personal transportation" market has massively changed. Whether it's for the better or worse simply doesn't matter . Veteran Chicago cabbie John Aikins,67, who is facing foreclosure on two medallions for which he owes more than $330,0000, said he has little hope that the industry can be saved. "It feels like the city is just watching us collapse," Aikins said. "Right now, there are…

That man took out a loan for a medallion, with the idea that he should be able to sell it once he retires. The medallion is now worthless. If Chicago cares about the cabbies, individual owners should be paid dollar for dollar the value of those medallions, even if no one else will buy them in the future. (Does Chicago buy back the medallions, or do you have to have to sell them to someone else? Is the 300,000 the mar…

He gambled that the cities artificial monopoly would last so he could continue to gouge consumers until retirement. In fact, he gambled the monopoly would stay strong so medallion prices would increase so he could reap a secondary monopoly profit by selling his medallions.

The fact that medallions, which originally cost far less than $300,000, shot up to that price is solely because of the money they allowed you to grift from chicagos citizens. Now you think those citizens should be punished again to pay more taxes in order to redeem the speculators medallions at their highest historical price?

My guess is that if medallions changed hands at $300K, that meant that they could be leased out to cabbies for over $30K a year. That's the monopoly profits the system created for them.

We never should have bailed out the banks without much harsher terms. But politicians were worried about financial collapse. There is no worry about that here, this is objectively good for the economy and the country.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#229

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 6:39 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #126

basseq wrote: post #3

I'm left wondering... so what? The "personal transportation" market has massively changed. Whether it's for the better or worse simply doesn't matter . Veteran Chicago cabbie John Aikins,67, who is facing foreclosure on two medallions for which he owes more than $330,0000, said he has little hope that the industry can be saved. "It feels like the city is just watching us collapse," Aikins said. "Right now, there are…

That man took out a loan for a medallion, with the idea that he should be able to sell it once he retires. The medallion is now worthless. If Chicago cares about the cabbies, individual owners should be paid dollar for dollar the value of those medallions, even if no one else will buy them in the future. (Does Chicago buy back the medallions, or do you have to have to sell them to someone else? Is the 300,000 the mar…

[deleted]

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#230

Post by valuearb » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 6:40 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #126

basseq wrote: post #3

I'm left wondering... so what? The "personal transportation" market has massively changed. Whether it's for the better or worse simply doesn't matter . Veteran Chicago cabbie John Aikins,67, who is facing foreclosure on two medallions for which he owes more than $330,0000, said he has little hope that the industry can be saved. "It feels like the city is just watching us collapse," Aikins said. "Right now, there are…

That man took out a loan for a medallion, with the idea that he should be able to sell it once he retires. The medallion is now worthless. If Chicago cares about the cabbies, individual owners should be paid dollar for dollar the value of those medallions, even if no one else will buy them in the future. (Does Chicago buy back the medallions, or do you have to have to sell them to someone else? Is the 300,000 the mar…

He gambled that the cities artificial monopoly would last so he could continue to gouge consumers until retirement. In fact, he gambled the monopoly would stay strong so medallion prices would increase so he could reap a secondary monopoly profit by selling his medallions.

The fact that medallions, which originally cost far less than $300,000, shot up to that price is solely because of the money they allowed you to grift from chicagos citizens. Now you think those citizens should be punished again to pay more taxes in order to redeem the speculators medallions at their highest historical price?

My guess is that if medallions changed hands at $300K, that meant that they could be leased out to cabbies for over $30K a year. That's the monopoly profits the system created for them.

We never should have bailed out the banks without much harsher terms. But politicians were worried about financial collapse. There is no worry about that here, this is objectively good for the economy and the country.