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Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

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Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#221

Post by intended »

abhishivsaxena wrote: post #207
_pythonlover_ wrote: post #206

I'm all for aadhaar but I'd like to know who has access to my information and why did they get it. Also If possible I'd like to have a degree of control over it. Also I'd like to know how they secure it without using a bunch of PR terms. These are all valid questions raised by that article but could have done a better job of explaining these problems and its implications.

You can ask aadhaar to dispatch notifications to you every time an authentiction happens. Non govt agencies need your consent to get your data, if you don't want that just don't authenticate. The article suggests that government is selling your data to private companies, which is such a big misrepresentation I wonder how Mozilla let its name be used for it. Do they not care for their reputation anymore? Private compa…

Right, and them getting that it self is a huge change in the Aadhar act

Aadhar was originally sold as just an ack this number matches those finger prints.

Now in the 2016 act, it provides all those details. All of which are enough to determine your religion, caste and more.

The issue is not about the tech, it is about trust and about rights.

None of which are directly responsible for increasing GDP, just the same way GDP is not responsible for making the difference between being a bunch of companies and being a nation.

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#222

Post by intended »

thisisit wrote: post #131

The amount of people calling FUD is amazing. Let's first talk about the implementation: How many cards do we have in India specially for ID purposes? PAN for taxes, Raashan card for food grains and subsidies are the two names I can think of from the gamut of ids. Now a person needs Aadhar to literally do everything not including taxes and subsidies. Why is that? Isn't it enough that people kowtow to babus to get thei…

Ration card. Literally - used to be used for parents and grand parents to stand in line and get their weekly ration.

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#223

Post by intended »

davesque wrote: post #4

Does anyone know what sort of data they collect on people to identify them? One reason I ask is that I wonder how such a system could be used to provide a "scientific" answer as to what caste a person belongs. That would obviously be a little worrisome if it were possible.

You have surname data, and also given address.

On top of it this data is often found floating around in many unguarded excel files all over the web.

Its trivially easy to break people into caste buckets.

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#224

Post by intended »

bpodgursky wrote: post #3

Seriously Mozilla? The Indian ID drive has ensured that benefits make it to the people who need them without 80% of it being skimmed by corrupt bureaucrats. Having a real identification gives very poor individuals the identification necessary to open bank accounts and interact with the financial sector. It's the first really reliable census data for a lot of areas. It's disgusting that Mozilla sits there and pontific…

No its not. And those countries HAD those problems, and SOLVED them by going up the wealth ladder and building institutions.

THere is NO short cut to institutions and habit building.

You could build a million toilets, and people still wouldn't use it in India, because the older institutions and habits are stronger.

In the same way, just having a magical tech bullet is a favorite fantasy of people who haven't seen the cross of human institutions and actual human behavior.

Aadhar is already shown to not work on its promised targets, but has of course been expanded to do everything from book tickets, to get phones.

This I promise, once the ruling coalition changes, the pro-aadhar brigade will change their tune, once they worry that their neck is on the line.

Convenience and efficiency over your rights are terrible choices.

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#225

Post by intended »

aub3bhat wrote: post #87
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> fearmongering at a scale unseen before Such hyperbole weakens your argument. It's borderline zealous. I don't think you are a zealot and I think you have a valid argument, although I disagree with you. But expressing good thoughts in hyperbole is not effective here. (Another example is the "no right to criticise" argument. Nobody cares who has a legal right to do disagree. This isn't a court of law. All we care abo…

"fearmongering at a scale unseen before" is reasonable response when the argument uses words like "dystopian".

Aadhar is definitionally dystopian.

In case people are unaware

> No fundamental right to privacy to citizens: Centre tells SC

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/No-fundamental-righ...

thats from 2015.

Aadhar has regularly been pushed in violation of SC verdicts for ever.

Until 2016, and the enshrinment of the 2016 act, it wasn't even with parliamentary backing - AND it was still pushed.

At every level, aadhar has been abused and misused, publicly and on record.

It is dystopian

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#226

Post by intended »

realonedev wrote: post #143
splintercell wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And, Godhra Train was burned by 2000 Muslims surrounding a train and burning people with nothing to escape. > Next time before mentioning Godhra and Muslims in same sentence don't forget to mention what 2000 Muslims did to unarmed people in train by locking the train compartment. None of these things matter. Lets say that 10 people committed a crime in broad daylight in front of hundreds of people, then they hid in…

You are unable to back up your claims by verifiable data source and quantifiable data points. Can you get the caste of a person by reading the Aadhar number ? Answer is No. If you or your relatives had not lost bribe money due to the Direct Benefit scheme, then I cannot understand the blatant hate of Aadhar. Otherwise, I hope that neither you nor your immediate family members were accumulating wealth by being corrupt…

The answer is yes

After the change in 2016, aadhar no longer gives only a confirmation/negation, it also provides demographic information aka full name, and address + a few more features.

Surnames are highly distinctive especially when combined with address data, so yes Aadhar now will provide you with enough information to assess caste.

Furthermore - since when do mobs and angry people worry about 100% accuracy. In the throes of emotion, close enough is good enough.

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#227

Post by ashwinaj »

intended wrote: post #215
ashwinaj wrote: post #199

I recently made a trip to India; just a week earlier me and a few friends were talking about driver less cars, automation, AI etc.(you know the usual SV talking points) When I landed there all this futuristic talk flew out of my head; it is a very different world out there. I am reminded of this feeling, because this author sits in his/her nice comfy office in Mountain View mouthing off on something with no understan…

Most Indian's, wouldn't care about a constitution, demonstrably don't care about sanitation, and are easily sidelined by superstition. Yet, they try every day - to over come that with whatever tools and education in front of them. MANY people in India, aside from the brigade yelling "efficiency and progress", do not value efficiency and progress. So they do care, and will definitely care once they realize they were s…

> demonstrably don't care about sanitation, and are easily sidelined by superstition.

Exactly, thanks for making my point. There are such fundamental problems in India that privacy laws are the least of the layman's problems.

Do you seriously think someone who doesn't have basic ameneties (that we take for granted) cares about this? Get real, they don't.

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#228

Post by intended »

ashwinaj wrote: post #227
intended wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Indian's, wouldn't care about a constitution, demonstrably don't care about sanitation, and are easily sidelined by superstition. Yet, they try every day - to over come that with whatever tools and education in front of them. MANY people in India, aside from the brigade yelling "efficiency and progress", do not value efficiency and progress. So they do care, and will definitely care once they realize they were s…

> demonstrably don't care about sanitation, and are easily sidelined by superstition. Exactly, thanks for making my point. There are such fundamental problems in India that privacy laws are the least of the layman's problems. Do you seriously think someone who doesn't have basic ameneties (that we take for granted) cares about this? Get real, they don't.

Why do you think Ambedkar made the constitution with the protections he did?

Why did Gandhi fight for dignity and freedom at the same time.

A country is not its GDP, the GDP is valuable because it serves the country.

You deeply underestimate the intelligence and drive of the people, as well as the protections people need.

Do you think all these people in the west don't see this? See this math on privacy vs efficiency? They do. And they've seen what it does, and it's been bad enough that it's been burnt into them through generations.

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#229

Post by [deleted] »

dang wrote: post #194
hackuser wrote: post #193

Well, I agree the discussion is pretty awful. But this policy is a bit unclear to me (and otherwise unwritten, AFAICT): > not making insinuations about astroturfing and shills, unless you have evidence That's confusing: What evidence could users have? In my comment, one of the ones you objected to, I cited some strong patterns in the discussion. That's going to be the best evidence that users have access to unless it…

We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14432749 and marked it off-topic.

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