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Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

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Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#221

Post by dermybaby »

okreallywtf wrote: post #42
nrjames wrote: post #15

It's ok to be accommodating as long as you have learned to be introspective. We all have demands of our own time and money. Introspective accommodating people are able to help others in a generous way while protecting the time and resources they need to help themselves. It's a difficult balance to achieve. Through experience, I've come to believe that this holds true in long-term personal relationships, too. While ma…

I agree, I don't think it has to be an either-or type of thing. I started out being too accommodating but have gradually learned to say no more and more. Sometimes it surprises people who are used to you being overly accommodating, but if you have enough self-respect and respect your own time the surprise usually doesn't last and typically results in . Someone who is too used to you being accommodating might escalate…

I don't think it is a trivial situation. I think you are being pragmatic moving over if some dude gets antsy behind you.

Road rage is serious business. I think intent is hard to guess and we err on the side of caution. You are right that you open yourself up to mistakes if you weave and dodge through traffic. Tough call sometimes.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#222

Post by TeMPOraL »

icanhackit wrote: post #172
skosch wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: when people do this to me, I instinctively assume that the true reason is laziness. On top of that, I feel alienated – what, you think you're so important that you can brush me off just like that, and I'm not even worthy being given a reason? Be careful with this one. It's very much possible to state a reason and still express that you won't change your mind on the matter. Although it is more effort, yo…

> Counterpoint: when people do this to me, I instinctively assume that the true reason is laziness It depends on who you are in the scheme of things. If you're a friend, colleague or family member you have the expectation that you can depend on a person because of your proximity to them in a social network. No usually does need to be qualified in those cases. But if you're not closely tied to a person in a network an…

Money to social networks is IMO like "System 2" to "System 1". We're wired to handle the "who owes whom" in small groups; money lets us scale this to a large society.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#223

Post by TeMPOraL »

rytill wrote: post #174
skosch wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: when people do this to me, I instinctively assume that the true reason is laziness. On top of that, I feel alienated – what, you think you're so important that you can brush me off just like that, and I'm not even worthy being given a reason? Be careful with this one. It's very much possible to state a reason and still express that you won't change your mind on the matter. Although it is more effort, yo…

Seems like that's at least partially on you. I have a friend like this and, while we get along great most of the time, he is always interrogating people who say no to him and you can just tell he's assuming 'the true reason is laziness'. People make complex decisions and they shouldn't always have to explain why. Especially with someone you trust.

When I feel someone is thinking this way ("true reason is laziness"), I instinctively react in an unpleasant way. I've been using a phrase "you treat me with less respect you'd treat a stranger" to remind them that empathy goes both ways, and I'm not their servant but independent human being.

I.e. if in the way you ask you show you're expecting them to comply, you're doing it wrong. Show respect to people's need for autonomy, and they'll be more willing to help you out.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#224

Post by jcoffland »

Bakary wrote: post #184
manmal wrote: post #91

For anybody learning to say "no" currently - learn to say "no" gently and kindly. I'm quite bad at this myself. I let people impose stuff on me, and once I have had enough, I have a very rude way of telling people off. One reason for this rudeness is a fear that I will lose something when declining (e.g. a relationship or money), so I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place - I don't want to help, but I feel I sho…

One method I found works disturbingly well is to have a busy life or cultivate the appearance of a busy life. It's counter-intuitive for some and obvious for others, but people will value you more if you are less available whereas they will treat your time with increasing contempt if you can be reached and interrupted easily. With this reputation in place, people are much less likely to try to trick you into doing wh…

> One method I found works disturbingly well is to have a busy life or cultivate the appearance of a busy life.

There is nothing original about this. Practically everyone is doing all they can to pretend to be busy, to the point that many people actually believe that they are, and all to avoid meaningful interactions with the people around them. Meaningful interactions are risky and costly and modern people have lost their nerve. It's so much easier to watch Net Flix when you want to feel. I'm sick to death of this. I want to surround myself with people who live deeply and with meaning.

Think about it, how many people, other than your family, really give a shit if you live or die? For most people that number is close to zero and it's not going to change if you buy in to this bullshit that the solution to your problems is to guard your time or focus more on yourself. In my experience, the only people who say they need to start thinking more of their own needs are the ones who have always done so.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#225

Post by [deleted] »

manmal wrote: post #91

For anybody learning to say "no" currently - learn to say "no" gently and kindly. I'm quite bad at this myself. I let people impose stuff on me, and once I have had enough, I have a very rude way of telling people off. One reason for this rudeness is a fear that I will lose something when declining (e.g. a relationship or money), so I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place - I don't want to help, but I feel I sho…

[deleted]

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#226

Post by TeMPOraL »

galfarragem wrote: post #166
hammock wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both of those sound terrible and regardless of your feelings I might tag you as unreliable. Is there a third way?

Yes and without lies: "sorry, I have already other plans." Although, it doesn't work with very close people that are expecting a concrete justification unless you want to enter in white lies' territory.

My approach is that if close people expect some justification, I'll enter the "let's figure this out together" mode. If they're not willing to work with me in this mode, they get a clear signal that I'm not cooperating in any other way. If they complain, I point out they're showing me less respect right now than they'd show a random stranger, and we're supposed to be very close, i.e. care about each other.

I try to be very consistent about it - they really can work out pretty much anything with me in a respectful and rational way, so the above is not a dismissal, it's enforcing communications protocol.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#227

Post by TeMPOraL »

noja wrote: post #102
abandonliberty wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accommodation and compromise are zero sum. You're leaving a lot on the table if that's the extent of your paradigm. Here's a sample model: http://righttojoy.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Assertive-v... Collaboration is value-generating. It takes more effort and yields more return. Rather than 'pushing back' you work together to understand what is important to each party and find ways to meet those needs. This must b…

How do you collaborate on something like a technical decision which is black or white?

You talk about it. Either you reach a decision you both agree on or you don't. In the latter case, it's usually more important to keep the ship sailing than to have it your way, so one of you will have to give up. If you both can't, agree on a fair procedure - like asking a third party or throwing a coin - and stick with the answer. If you disagree with the decision, you can always say your disagreement explicitly and refuse to take responsibility for it, but that's totally orthogonal to supporting it when the decision has been made.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#228

Post by edgartaor »

adrianmonk wrote: post #179
watwut wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found it oftentimes easier to say no without saying reason. The issue for me was that when I state reason, people wanted to negotiate, attempted to "advise" me on how organize my time better and so on and so forth. Overtime (at least against many people) I found it much less draining to simply insist on politely stated no without further explanation.

Yes, unfortunately true. It gives the other person a signal that says "I feel like you have enough power in this situation that I have to justify this decision to you". And if they are the type to push people around whenever they are able, you've basically just told them they are going to win this battle, so go ahead.

I couldn't say better.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#229

Post by TeMPOraL »

abandonliberty wrote: post #59
nrjames wrote: post #15

It's ok to be accommodating as long as you have learned to be introspective. We all have demands of our own time and money. Introspective accommodating people are able to help others in a generous way while protecting the time and resources they need to help themselves. It's a difficult balance to achieve. Through experience, I've come to believe that this holds true in long-term personal relationships, too. While ma…

Accommodation and compromise are zero sum. You're leaving a lot on the table if that's the extent of your paradigm. Here's a sample model: http://righttojoy.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Assertive-v... Collaboration is value-generating. It takes more effort and yields more return. Rather than 'pushing back' you work together to understand what is important to each party and find ways to meet those needs. This must b…

> Your partner needs to be reasonably intelligent and reasonable for this to work.

Most people are capable of being reasonable and behaving intelligently; they may just not be used to it. I figured this out some time ago. The way I do it if someone doesn't behave reasonably is to politely make it clear that working together on a problem is the only way they can get something from me.

"Getting to Yes" is a good book, I second the recommendation.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#230

Post by emersonrsantos »

Every time you give someone theoretically everything they want, they will not value you.

It's a simple supply and demand rule. Everything offered in abundance loses its value. What are you offering? Your time, your resources, your care, your attention.

To people realize your valor, offer less, invest less. Give them space to miss you and run after you.

We do not respect or admire worthless things.

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