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Kotlin Is Better

steve-yegge.blogspot.com

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Re: Kotlin Is Better

#221

Post by emodendroket »

douche wrote: post #140
markdog12 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often use WebStorm (Intellij variant), and I am continually annoyed by its inability to keep up with my typing. I do like the IDE, but I do wish it was more responsive. It often feels like a heavyweight, taking long to do any operation, especially starting up.

I've never seen anything that tried to do intellisense in JavaScript that wasn't slower than molasses. The quickest way for me to get Visual Studio to crash is to open two or three small .js files, watch the memory usage skyrocket, and the editor speed grind to a halt.

Webstorm is significantly better than VS for JS, or at least it was with VS2013.

Re: Kotlin Is Better

#222

Post by mpweiher »

dahauns wrote: post #218
mpweiher wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Without type annotations, refactorings are never safe There is a difference between "I can prove this is safe" and "this is safe". You guys need to start figuring out the difference between theory and practice.

In practice, "this is safe" often transforms to "I thought this was safe" at the most inopportune moment.

Nope, your theory says it should. In practice it doesn't.

Re: Kotlin Is Better

#223

Post by tannhaeuser »

MarkMc wrote: post #207
andrewstuart wrote: post #124

A few people have said that IntelliJ is slow. Why is this so, if Java is not inherently slow? Sure JetBrains are some of the smartest developers around and yet their IDE is still slow. I can't help but feel that Java is slow and problems with performance in something like IntelliJ do nothing to dispel that feeling.

IntelliJ is written in Swing, which 10 years ago was certainly slower than an alternative UI framework like SWT. Not sure if there is a noticeable difference nowadays.

With IntelliJ using Swing as a major vendor and showing its potential, is there a chance for getting a new developer community behind Swing/geom2d? Or is IntelliJ in the progress of migrating away to something else? Asking because I'm having an old (but useful) Java2D diagramming app lying around that I'd maybe like to lift, but the lack of a future perspective for java2d and Swing always held me back on working on it. I don't even know if java.awt.geom can handle HiDPI these days. Would be a pity to loose it, since java 2d certainly is a useful programming model for these kind of apps; what's missing is commitment (by Oracle or other party) to it.

Re: Kotlin Is Better

#224

Post by pkolaczk »

dahauns wrote: post #219
pkolaczk wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also encountered way more IDE bugs in Scala than in Java. Actually during the full last year of development of a real-world commercial Scala project I encountered 0 bugs in Java and 2 bugs in Scala. What about more objective measures? Scala plugin issue tracker: 11667 issues. Kotlin plugin issue tracker: 17664 issues. And this difference is despite Scala being longer on the market and being more popular than Kotlin…

How on earth is this an objective measure for plugin quality? There's so much you can interpret into these numbers that they are borderline meaningless.

It is objective measure - it may not be a perfect metric, but definitely objective. If there are more issues relative to the number of programmers this means there are either more bugs, users have more questions, and/or just more feature requests (which means - the plugin is lacking features). Also both plugins share the exactly same bug tracker and the same issue filing process, so you can't argue it is easier to report errors for one over another.

Re: Kotlin Is Better

#225

Post by arwhatever »

kiallmacinnes wrote: post #195
seanwilson wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We tend to use tests for just this case. You change anything you want, then see which tests break, and fix all the places. Why not tests + static typing? Getting tests to point out breakages is attempting to do job the compiler can do for you but not as well. If you renamed a field in some places but not others for example, you'd have to rely on good enough code coverage to catch this plus deciphering a failing tes…

> rely on good enough code coverage to catch this Wait, you don't enforce 100% coverage? (Sorry, couldn't resist ;)) I actually mostly agree, static typing is a huge boon for productivity, and certainly allows for less experienced (both new programmers, and new to the project) developers to become productive on a new codebase faster. However, I think dynamic typing forces a certain familiarity with the codebase that…

My intuition would stay that static typing would rule the lowest end of the spectrum of developers out, and that dynamic typing would allow that lower end to get started coding much more quickly, until reaching the scale at which the false economy becomes apparent.

Re: Kotlin Is Better

#226

Post by iLemming »

zzalpha wrote: post #58
pje wrote: post #48

The "ew gross weird" reaction to Scala and Clojure is tremendously disappointing (especially coming from someone whose thesis is basically "give this new language a chance")

Clojure startup times are brutal, and simply not workable in the mobile environment where Android lives.

You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Clojure allows you live interactive programming. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt2zNemLCCk

Re: Kotlin Is Better

#227

Post by iLemming »

emodendroket wrote: post #166
andrewstuart wrote: post #124

A few people have said that IntelliJ is slow. Why is this so, if Java is not inherently slow? Sure JetBrains are some of the smartest developers around and yet their IDE is still slow. I can't help but feel that Java is slow and problems with performance in something like IntelliJ do nothing to dispel that feeling.

Because IntelliJ does a lot of work. Similarly, Visual Studio is not usually slow but sometimes it will mysteriously become so slow as to become unusable, or at least that was true a few years ago when I spent a lot of time in it.

Visual Studio is a hosting environment for Resharper. And Resharper makes it awfully slow. IntelliJ compared to VS (even without Resharper) is like Emacs compared to IntelliJ.

Re: Kotlin Is Better

#228

Post by iLemming »

manojlds wrote: post #53
wisty wrote: post #50

It seems to mostly be compared to Java. Sure, if you don't like functional languages or dynamic languages (Jython, Groovy, JRuby) then I guess it's the best high profile JVM language.

Scala?

Arguably Kotlin was actually created to address some deficiencies of Scala.

Re: Kotlin Is Better

#229

Post by iLemming »

anjanb wrote: post #83

Anyone knows how it performs versus, say, Clojure for server-side development ?

Good question. I would also be interested in seeing some concurrency related benchmarks. Clojure excels on that field due to immutable data-structures. There's simply no point of talking about concurrency without immutability.
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