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Recovering from Burnout and Depression

kierantie.com

221–230 of 266 posts

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#221
post #15

I think a big factor in burnout is that most work is ultimately meaningless, or even morally wrong, and on a deep level, we're aware of that. Why is it so hard to make yourself work? Probably because you actually should be doing something else with your life. If someone paid you money to kick a dog, you'd feel a strong urge to do something else. That's because you shouldn't kick dogs. But when we feel the same urge t…

> You may have an idea that you know will make you a millionaire and which you could build, but you just can't force yourself to because fundamentally money won't make you happy and the idea is meaningless at best.

You can't force yourself to build the thing which will make you a millionaire, not because of nihilism, but because subconsciously it's much easier and more rewarding to have an idea that you hope will make you rich than it is to build the idea and know it doesn't work.

It's the same reason there are so many aspiring artists and rock stars compared with the number of failed artists and rock stars.

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#222
the author of the post really grabbed my attention for his slick copy to get my to sign up for his mailing list. as soon as you get on the list he has a link to a tweet he wants you to RT. excellent copy, very good marketing and product skills. I'm going to be following this author because he could be onto something.

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#223

I want to highlight something that the article touched on, which for me, was a big source of burnout. "Breakdown of community" This can happen if you work remotely, or work in-office with a team that isn't collaborating effectively. If the work you do is isolating and you rarely collaborate with others, you may suffer burnout. At our core we all want to feel like we're part of something bigger than ourselves. Being p…

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Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#224
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean... but you do. You just said that if you keep asking, you end up with a "nihilist" view and descend into meaningless. So your overall philosophy right now is that form of "nihilism". That is, after all, why you do not find the value in asking "why". I strongly disagree with that and I believe this kind of thinking is not actually as logical or as rational as you were lead to believe, and properly asking the wh…

My understanding was that the whole point of going with the flow is to avoid thinking too much.

Exactly.

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#225
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think today is my bad wordsmith day. I was so detached from feeling reality, I felt jealous when I saw scavengers in Nigeria finding 'treasure' in the junk yard that they can fix and sell in the market. And when I was in a not so affluent area at one time, and guys in rags gathered around a trolley were chatting away happily. And when a shopkeeper of a small booth looked so relaxed, watching the world go by with hi…

Based on the topic of this thread, you can look at it in a different way. All humans need a challenge (or, at least, I've never met someone who is happy without some kind of challenge). A challenge for survival is, perhaps, the most noble kind. Literature (in all cultures) is filled with fantasies of the "Noble Savage". It is easy to connect meaning to that life and death struggle. In that context, if I compare a ric…

> However, money can also provide the means to choose your challenge rather than to be forced to always deal with survival.

This. I agree with the comment overall, but just in case someone is reading my comments from last night, there's another thing that I wasn't clear about.

Living to survive is something that no one can't possibly relate to unless they are already in that situation.

Although I never felt it, I have a mixed background and witnessed some realities of poverty. Let's take one scenario, which may be simple to you and me but can throw an entire poor family off-balance:

Say that you're sick. You may not afford to get medicine, and even if you can, it becomes a choice whether to sacrifice something else, like lunch money for your kids. Say that after a prolonged period of time, you decide that you do need that medicine after all. So your children goes hungry, and if they go to school, it will affect their studies. Their school isn't exactly well-off either. And now they have a parent who's sick, and who they have to take care of because there's no one else to - so they may have to miss school too. The parent has always been the breadwinner so the children are stuck in a deeper dilemma - who's going to bring the money in now?

Cue in multiple scenarios like this, where hard choices have to be made all the time amongst an environment where drugs, prostitution, crimes etc are more easily accessible ... what chances do these children have when they're all grown up?

Clearly when I was depressed, I romanticised those who were poorer than me (though it was true that they had something which I didn't have.) And like the commenter above this post, I agree that rich people can sometimes miss the plot of living itself. But poverty is a terrible master of destiny. It's a cycle that not a lot of people, let alone the generations that come after them, can just escape.

If you are reading this, please remember that you're actually wealthy, whether in money, health, youth, have access to the Internet etc. You can most definitely afford to 'tinker' - and go for it! But never forget the majority who are still trapped and have to make hard choices all the time.

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#226
post #202
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think today is my bad wordsmith day. I was so detached from feeling reality, I felt jealous when I saw scavengers in Nigeria finding 'treasure' in the junk yard that they can fix and sell in the market. And when I was in a not so affluent area at one time, and guys in rags gathered around a trolley were chatting away happily. And when a shopkeeper of a small booth looked so relaxed, watching the world go by with hi…

I think the main point to focus on is not the relative condition of liveliness, but the mechanism of its generation - which is to have and engage with difficult life problems, struggling against them each day, even while knowing that there's some absurdity to it(because the premises are so often arbitrary). In the popular context this always maps onto basic survival since it's very relatable and immediate: but for a…

> This motivates many of the conclusions of Stoic thought: the moderation, the development of awareness about one's sphere of control.

I've always admired stoicism but found that the principles aren't exclusive to this. Buddhism, weirdly Islam too, and no doubt other sub-groups of religions such as Quaker-ism.

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#227
It has already been said that burnout can stem from a "bad boss", i.e. abusive, or your work is not appreciated. I think it can also stem from not having a (perceived) choice. If your worldview forces you to do this exact job ("I'm only good at this particular job", "I would lose my/our home for lack of money", "My parents would not approve me quitting"), then this can kill your enthusiasm, and also result in a burnout. And it will spread, and infect other areas of your life, and you might wonder why you are actually here. Just building up a choice can help a lot. This could be an alternative career that earns less, but you realize that you can actually get by on less. Or you make the decision that your parents' approval is not something you need anymore. Given a choice, the fun might or might not return. I'm pivoting to design for this very reason. I love building things, and I'm good (maybe great) at software, but programming is just not an activity I feel comfortable doing all day.

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A broad non-status goal wouldn't fit that paradigm. It is likely to be overwhelming and require a lot of people, or, on the other hand, be fairly straightforward and missed because it's not prestigious. I think you have it here. There are some very simple, very natural things that can fulfill most of the average individual's basic yearnings, but they're overlooked today, they're regarded as passe or even backwards.…

Odd, child-bearing is kind of the original source of all the zero-sum status-seeking behavior.

Child-bearing is the original source of all humanity.

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say that 'purpose' would fit better into your argument than 'goal'. Taking care of children or elderly parent gives you a purpose but is not a goal. And yes, I agree that having a purpose makes the tough parts of life more bearable.

The word "purpose" would fit what I'm talking about, but not really the way it seems to be commonly used. I distinguish these things by their target of focus: A "purpose" is concerned with one's place in the world. It's an attempt to fit in. It is also often done in a manner similar to picking your favorite color. "I want to be a star athlete". A high-level "purpose"/"goal"/etc. is concerned with the state of the wor…

The problem I see with this approach is that, unless you're a billionaire (maybe a multimillionaire), you're not going to affect the world in any measurable way (barring super-rare exceptions like some writers, politicians, scientists etc.). Granted, you could make your life's purpose to for example improve pot holes situation in your county - in such case, even when being an average nobody you can make the situation better (by constantly harassing the authorities etc.). I don't know how many people can be driven by such small-stake goal though.

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#230
post #226
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the main point to focus on is not the relative condition of liveliness, but the mechanism of its generation - which is to have and engage with difficult life problems, struggling against them each day, even while knowing that there's some absurdity to it(because the premises are so often arbitrary). In the popular context this always maps onto basic survival since it's very relatable and immediate: but for a…

> This motivates many of the conclusions of Stoic thought: the moderation, the development of awareness about one's sphere of control. I've always admired stoicism but found that the principles aren't exclusive to this. Buddhism, weirdly Islam too, and no doubt other sub-groups of religions such as Quaker-ism.

It's true that they are not exclusive to Stoicism but unlike most of the others these principles are central to Stoicism.
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