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Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

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Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#221

Post by CalRobert »

hyperbovine wrote: post #183
yjgyhj wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being vegetarian is easy and healthy. I recommend it. If nothing else, buy a nice cookbook and make it a habit to cook nice non-meat food one night a week. Make it a date with your partner!

It's worth reiterating that there's a whole continuum between eating meat and eating no meat called "eating less meat". Always amazes me how people overlook this when writing off reduced meat consumption as not for them. Vegetarian Cooking for Everyone by Deborah Madison is a great way to start down this path.

Thanks for pointing that out. I'm not a vegetarian, but when I order a veggie burger I'm often asked if I am.

I eat meat once a week or so, and would have a hard time passing on some of the cultural norms around meat (Thanksgiving turkey, etc.) but eating 90% less meat means 90% lower meat-related emissions.

Of course, if your reason for being vegetarian is animal welfare and ethics, then this rings hollow ("I commit 90% fewer murders!")

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#222

Post by CalRobert »

mavhc wrote: post #118
andy_ppp wrote: post #113

Are we doomed and what would a world where greenhouse gases were going down look like? Would we still be able to fly internationally for example?

One return flight from Los Angeles to Europe creates as much CO2 as the rest of your life for a year, if you live reasonably eco friendly (still drive to work, but have solar panels for example) Best to skype

Or move to Europe, of course.

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#223

Post by mycloud »

fsiefken wrote: post #181
uranian wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its the "economy" and the lack of vision and vigor of politicians to change it. As long as our policies and laws are still in favor of the economy we are doomed.

Do we have an alternative working model? What we have now, works to a certain extent, but is perhaps not sustainable. The risks, the potential cost of (radical?) changes is to high.

I would say it is the best model we came up with so far, while it being a model with tremendous flaws. It works for humans to gain progress with what we consider as progress, probably mostly growth in wealth and health. The biggest problem is, that it is fully based on exploitation of nature (which includes human beings) so far. That exploitation is unfortunately exceedingly dangerous to ensuring our vision of progress can endure.

Considering the article, I don't think it is useful to for example try to minimize a human footprint. If that is the goal we might as well drop dead to achieve it. The question is more around what kind of footprint it is. Does it allow us and the nature ecosystem to still evolve in a way it works towards our goals or not. The universe will not give a damn about the rearranging of atoms we do, but as we depend on how those are arranged to live, we have no choice to care or not.

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#224

Post by CalRobert »

PKop wrote: post #43

Can someone explain: - since CO2 has a logarithmic effect on warming - the catastrophic climate prediction models have not proven effective at predicting climate - we should expect moderate increases in warming, which can be beneficial (livable climate, crops etc) - the unquestionable benefits of hydro carbon energy to bring people out of poverty and into modern prosperity (food, healthcare, modern technology) ..what…

You have no idea how much I want what you write to be true. Trust me, I LIKE driving fast and burning gas and building stuff. It's fun!

However, peddling this without very, very good sources is harmful. Yours are dubious at best, and come from a political organization (the Reason Foundation), not a scientific one.

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#225

Post by dandelion_lover »

retrac98 wrote: post #137

How does animal agriculture affect this? Are there any authorities on the subject on HN? Everything I've heard suggests the greenhouse gas emissions in support of animal agriculture far outstrip those of pretty much anything else, but nobody seems to really talk about it. Pre-empting a couple of replies here - I already don't eat meat, and yes I've seen "Cowspiracy". :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_meat_p...

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#226

Post by spangry »

flukus wrote: post #193
jessriedel wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This UN site says 5% of actual CO2 and 14% of CO2-equivalent emissions. Cow and pig production emit mostly methane and nitrogen oxide. http://www.fao.org/news/story/en/item/197623/icode/

Pigs are actually a lot better than cows because they are monogastric. So we can cut CO2 emissions by eating more pork and less beef. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruminant#Ruminants_and_climate...

Even better, kangaroos (I know, I know, poor skippy...). Their digestive systems don't produce methane: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangaroo#Absence_of_digestive_...

And I'm less sure of this, but I've heard that they cause far less soil erosion compared to cows, as their weight is spread out over a much larger area (i.e. they have big feet). Their populations in some parts of Australia have also reached unsustainable starvation levels, to the point where some State-level governments have initiated culling (i.e. licensed shooting of kangaroos, in a country with very tight gun-control laws).

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#227

Post by adrianN »

qplex wrote: post #198
demonshalo wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By lifestyle I mean supermarkets and restaurants and iPhones and planes ... all the stuff that we're so proud of as a society. Winning, getting ahead, being number one, outcompeting, etc. All those ego-centric values that are the basis of our socio-economic systems - focused on disconnecting the `self` from `other` - are wrong on a fundamental level. By 'spirituality' I mean the deep realisation of the larger conte…

Except here what you label as "pseudo spiritual" is actually the more realistic, scientific and moral way of seeing things. The iPhones and Supermarkets are of the dream reality. A world without consequences, where the Foxconn Factory Workers (or the mines of Congo) do not exist.

Foxconn factory workers have a lower suicide rate than the average Chinese.

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#228

Post by eli_gottlieb »

UweSchmidt wrote: post #190
demonshalo wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By lifestyle I mean supermarkets and restaurants and iPhones and planes ... all the stuff that we're so proud of as a society. Winning, getting ahead, being number one, outcompeting, etc. All those ego-centric values that are the basis of our socio-economic systems - focused on disconnecting the `self` from `other` - are wrong on a fundamental level. By 'spirituality' I mean the deep realisation of the larger conte…

The assertion is that, as cool as iPhones and flying are, this lifestyle may or may not be sustainable, e.g. regarding the CO2 levels. Leaving aside your silly anger about "hippie bullshit" (really?) and regardless of our history of "competing, losing, getting ahead", what would you propose? Are we just going to brace for pain, and then compete over diminishing ressources? Consider: all of environment protection legi…

>Consider: all of environment protection legislation that we take for granted now was once "hippie bullshit".

No, all the environmental damage we now defend and wish we could take for granted was once, and remains, valid science. Bio-time, bio-space, and the folding and unfolding of DNA across the ages are in fact hippie bullshit.

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#229

Post by youdontknowtho »

demonshalo wrote: post #182
delegate wrote: post #145

The message I"m getting is not that I have to prepare for something or change energy sources , it's that "our lifestyle is killing the planet much faster than we thought". CO2 levels is just one of a myriad of indicators that are off the scale now. By lifestyle I mean supermarkets and restaurants and iPhones and planes ... all the stuff that we're so proud of as a society. Winning, getting ahead, being number one, ou…

> By lifestyle I mean supermarkets and restaurants and iPhones and planes ... all the stuff that we're so proud of as a society. Winning, getting ahead, being number one, outcompeting, etc. All those ego-centric values that are the basis of our socio-economic systems - focused on disconnecting the `self` from `other` - are wrong on a fundamental level. By 'spirituality' I mean the deep realisation of the larger conte…

Your statement that the green movement would be embraced by everyone if they understood tradeoffs and economics doesn't take into account the opposition from entrenched interests and capital.

Your argument makes it sound like most people actually have an option to participate in progress or not (they don't realistically) or that the people making the decisions on tradeoffs are doing so in a rational way that benefits everyone. (They aren't.)

If you view progress as some kind of struggle of the species, like a force of nature, then yes it is indeed grand. If you view progress in the light of power struggle between factions in the species, then most progress actually benefits very few people.

I mean, despite the fact that people have known that plumbing is awesome for several thousand years most people still defecate in a hole in the ground.

I get it. That "captain-planet-mother-gaia" bullshit gets on my nerves too. But so does "economics is a science like physics". While the former is obnoxious, the latter is dangerous.

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#230

Post by finchisko »

delegate wrote: post #145

The message I"m getting is not that I have to prepare for something or change energy sources , it's that "our lifestyle is killing the planet much faster than we thought". CO2 levels is just one of a myriad of indicators that are off the scale now. By lifestyle I mean supermarkets and restaurants and iPhones and planes ... all the stuff that we're so proud of as a society. Winning, getting ahead, being number one, ou…

well said. feeling it exactly same. i'm convicted that next generations will despise today's lifestyle.
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