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Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

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Re: Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

#221

Post by sova »

akiselev wrote: post #87
Animats wrote: post #62

Judge Alsup: "If your guy is involved in criminal activity and has to have criminal lawyers of the caliber of these two gentlemen, who are the best, well, okay they got the best. But it’s a problem I can’t solve for you. And if you think I’m going to cut you some slack because you’re looking at—your guy is looking at jail time, no. They [Waymo] are going to get the benefit of their record. And if you don’t deny it—if…

For those who don't recognize the name, this is the same judge that learned some Java for the Oracle v. Google case (and has an undergrad degree in mathematics). Every time I read his name I know it's going to be a fun ride and the lawyers will not be able to get away with anywhere near as much shenanigans as they usually do. Although his ruling regarding API copyright in the Google case was overturned, he has a real…

Dude he learned Java for a court case? My respect for this man grows immense. What a G.

I wish more people were like this "I need some more domain-knowledge to understand what's at stake? no problem, let me do some learning." Excellent attitude.

Re: Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

#222

Post by sova »

eco wrote: post #215
chadcmulligan wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't she? Things I learn :-/

Those shows are pretty interesting. The judges aren't real judges (though most of them were judges in the past). You might wonder, as I did, why on earth defendants who are often obviously in the wrong, would agree to go on the show. The way they often work is if the plaintiff wins their judgement fee is paid by the producers of the show (not the defendant). If the defendant wins both parties receive an appearance fe…

Thanks a lot for explaining that. I always wondered in the back of my mind how it actually fit into the legal system. Now I know it doesn't at all! But, I'm glad the participants at least have some fiscal benefit in the end

Re: Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

#223

Post by ikeboy »

bradleyjg wrote: post #94
defen wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Uber supposed to prove that they don't have the files? I'm asking purely from a legal / process perspective - would they have to turn over all their data to discovery, or something? If they legitimately don't have the files, how could they satisfy the judge? Or is it not possible that they don't have the files? What if Levandowski has the files on his home computer or something but they never touched Uber's sy…

That's not really the issue. The issue is whether the judge is going to impute Levandowski's failure to cooperate to Uber. From the transcript: MR. GONZÁLEZ (Uber's lawyer): So, Your Honor, first of all, we have searched and we are in the process of searching all of our computers for the sorts of information that you referred to. And if we find those documents, we intend to produce those. In addition, Your Honor, we…

Is there any issue with judges reading newspaper articles about cases they're in? I know that jury members aren't supposed to, are judges fine?

Re: Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

#224

Post by School-Cotton »

I don't really get how the orders to search for documents on employee-owned devices are possibly enforceable. What stops employees with incriminating data from just throwing their devices in a river before they can be searched?

Re: Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

#225

Post by bravo22 »

oh_sigh wrote: post #124
Animats wrote: post #62

Judge Alsup: "If your guy is involved in criminal activity and has to have criminal lawyers of the caliber of these two gentlemen, who are the best, well, okay they got the best. But it’s a problem I can’t solve for you. And if you think I’m going to cut you some slack because you’re looking at—your guy is looking at jail time, no. They [Waymo] are going to get the benefit of their record. And if you don’t deny it—if…

Is it normal or appropriate for a judge to make assumptions about a defendant's guilt based on the lawyers they hire to represent them?

A court can draw adverse inference based on defendant's actions. So yes the judge can say that, but you'll note he says "we're not there yet, I don't know." and words to that effect. He is warning them that this doesn't look good for you but I haven't made up my mind so don't take this as judgment.

Re: Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

#226

Post by Twirrim »

oh_sigh wrote: post #25
YCode wrote: post #3

Offhand, this kind of sounds like a parent asking their teenager to go and search their own room for drugs. "Nah, I didn't find anything. I found this plastic bag that looks like it mighta had something in it, but I'm pretty sure my friend left it here and it was empty when he brought it." "Okay son, go search again."

Also, there is no reason to believe that a bad actor would steal 14,000 documents from a previous company, and then on the first day on the job go and upload them to the company git server. If I knew I was being nefarious, I would keep those documents on a completely airgapped computer in a private (non-company) space, only reference them when I was alone, and then bring information into the company only through my b…

If you look at the evidence Google presented, I'm really not convinced he thought things through at all. For someone seemingly trying to do something illegal, he's been curiously inept:

> Summer 2015 - Anthony Levandowski told Pierre-Yves Droz, a colleague at Waymo, that he had talked with an Uber executive about forming a self-driving car startup and that Uber would be interested in buying that startup.

.. whole bunch of stuff around retrieving the design data from Waymo/Google ...

> January 5, 2016 - Levandowski took a walk with Droz. In Pierre-Yves’ deposition, he claims that Levandowski “told him that he planned to ‘replicate’ Waymo’s technology at a new company he was forming.” (Droz 27)

.. another bit of downloading ..

> January 14, 2016 - Levandowski was seen meeting at Uber’s headquarters and the news travelled back to Droz. Droz asked Levandowski about this, and he admitted he had met with Uber and was looking for investors for his new company. (Droz 29, Filing 48)

> January 15, 2016 - Levandowski officially forms 280 Systems (in stealth mode). Note that this was one day after his meeting with Uber. (Filing 49)

> January 27, 2016 - Levandowski resigns from Waymo without notice. (Filing 49)

> February 1, 2016 - Levandowski forms Otto Trucking (this is also in stealth mode). (Filing 49)

Re: Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

#227

Post by maverick_iceman »

Animats wrote: post #62

Judge Alsup: "If your guy is involved in criminal activity and has to have criminal lawyers of the caliber of these two gentlemen, who are the best, well, okay they got the best. But it’s a problem I can’t solve for you. And if you think I’m going to cut you some slack because you’re looking at—your guy is looking at jail time, no. They [Waymo] are going to get the benefit of their record. And if you don’t deny it—if…

Source?

Re: Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

#228

Post by Twirrim »

fowlerpower wrote: post #40

This story is fascinating for tech people everywhere and we should all pay attention. We all have big dreams of starting our own company some day (I know do) and many of us work for big corporations that would rather we never go anywhere and work for as little as possible. (admittedly the markets are forcing them to pay us a lot but they aren't doing it out of good will). The outcome of this will teach us all very va…

> We all have big dreams of starting our own company some day

Speak for yourself. I've got absolutely no dreams whatsoever in starting my own company. I go to work, do good work and put in my hours. I get paid nicely above average salary so that I have no particular concerns from a financial perspective. Why would I want the stress and hassle of running my own company?

Re: Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

#229

Post by marklyon »

eco wrote: post #215
chadcmulligan wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't she? Things I learn :-/

Those shows are pretty interesting. The judges aren't real judges (though most of them were judges in the past). You might wonder, as I did, why on earth defendants who are often obviously in the wrong, would agree to go on the show. The way they often work is if the plaintiff wins their judgement fee is paid by the producers of the show (not the defendant). If the defendant wins both parties receive an appearance fe…

Judge Caprio disagrees.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC59KhIPOR0Jj653dC4laEJw

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