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Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

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Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#221

Post by selimthegrim »

esrauch wrote: post #215
lr4444lr wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's both[0]. But what it's not doing is duping aspiring college graduates to take out these loans in the first place. As detestable as their predation on the delinquent may be, they're not pumping up the loan bubble. https://www.navient.com/about/who-we-are/services/

On the other hand, my loan servicer was changed to some unbelievably poorly managed servicing company years after I had graduated (not one of the big 3-4 companies): think login without ssl, mailing me paper with my SSN printed on it, couldn't get a person on the phone after waiting on hold for hours. I never choose to make any financial deal with that company and I never would have given any choice. The net result w…

This sounds like ACS

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#222

Post by lr4444lr »

OrwellianChild wrote: post #175
lr4444lr wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Let people know what they're getting into.* Are you suggesting that when people signed for the loan - which was not with Navient, as they're on the servicing and collections side - that they didn't know what the terms of repayment would be?

The central problem I have with a loan like this is that it is tied to a socially encouraged activity that is central to most Americans' ideas of a successful path to adulthood. If we're going to socially encourage this, it needs to have some backstops to catch folks who fall. Whether the collections is outsourced or insourced, your average student borrower isn't planning on having their life's trajectory fall apart.…

I agree with your paragraph 1, not with paragraph 2. The US Dept. of Ed. could have come up with any number of solutions including outright forgiveness, work programs, access to cheap fee-based financial planners, more scholarships, changes to the tax code for the borrowers, or hiring incentives for employers. Instead, it chose to sell it off the debt in order to keep the accounting balanced under the desired time frame.

Navient should pay what the court compels it to if outright deception is found, but let's not overstate their role in the general problem around the structural non-sustainability of federal education loans, and the short-sightedness executive decision to spin off the liabilities into private hands.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#223

Post by OrwellianChild »

lr4444lr wrote: post #222
OrwellianChild wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The central problem I have with a loan like this is that it is tied to a socially encouraged activity that is central to most Americans' ideas of a successful path to adulthood. If we're going to socially encourage this, it needs to have some backstops to catch folks who fall. Whether the collections is outsourced or insourced, your average student borrower isn't planning on having their life's trajectory fall apart.…

I agree with your paragraph 1, not with paragraph 2. The US Dept. of Ed. could have come up with any number of solutions including outright forgiveness, work programs, access to cheap fee-based financial planners, more scholarships, changes to the tax code for the borrowers, or hiring incentives for employers. Instead, it chose to sell it off the debt in order to keep the accounting balanced under the desired time fr…

I don't think we necessarily disagree - you think outsourcing the liabilities was a bad move, presumably because in private hands, collections will be ruthless... I'm complaining about the same point. I just see no reason why "private actor" must imply ruthlessness. The terms of the contract or laws governing the collection of gov't loans could be written to enforce a fiduciary-like expectation into the arrangement.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#224

Post by OrwellianChild »

rayiner wrote: post #200
OrwellianChild wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, then... New rule: the primary loan provider for higher education in America - education that is argued in many circles as being a public good and benefit to society - shall be considered to be in a "special relationship" with the student borrower... Let people know what they're getting into. I don't see how this should be any different from the relationship a fiduciary has with his/her client. Can we make this…

Naviant isn't a loan provider. The government makes the loans. It's job is literally to make sure people make their payments.

I understand the distinction. I'm suggesting that, since Navient is also responsible for remediation, they be held to a higher standard for guiding customers' adverse payment options.

"Let people know what they're getting into." was intended to refer to the whole loan process, but specifically (in Navient's case) to the remediation options they present, and how they present them. That could include things like: 1) Guiding borrowers towards income-based repayment rather than deferment or forbearance, and 2) Recommending external options such as re-financing or consolidation where possible and advantageous.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#225

Post by mod »

GotAnyMegadeth wrote: post #204
mod wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's really not just as easy--not in advertising.

Although I completely agree with you, I took it as a challenge to come up with something that follows the above rules and is still devious. Here is my 1 min of effort attempt: https://ibb.co/giqgDv

That's pretty legitimate, well played.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#226

Post by chickenfries »

jordanmoconnor wrote: post #116
chickenfries wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What're you doing? My current plan is to try my damnedest to get a big 4 job. It sounds like you're trying to freelance in your off hours? How is that going?

The first plan is to get a 100% remote job in front-end development to save costs and time, and then use that to continue working on the side. I've been working on the side to learn web development for the past year and a half, and I have only now been reaching out to job applications that I qualify for. I at least want to pick up some higher paying part-time hours. I plan on using the debt snowball to get out of deb…

Sounds like a good plan. Freelancing on top of a regular job, even if you're remote is no small task.

You make me want to have more concrete plans for getting out of debt. Best of luck.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#227

Post by koga-ninja »

The way I see it, maybe there is a misunderstanding going on, Or maybe Navient's publicity materials are too touchy-feely.

According to the article, Navient is a private company, So shouldn't they have an expectation of return on Investment. This is not the U.S. government, which may Forgive debt.

Another point is why the hunger for expensive education, Which may be a Marxist critique, but since when did A credential make you a better software designer.

People are dying all over the globe, and we are worried About the top 20 percent wage earners of the superpower USA.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#228

Post by rarec »

malnourish wrote: post #211
adrianN wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spending ten bucks on a lottery ticket doesn't hurt most people while winning the lottery can have a live-changing impact. Every action is rational for a properly chosen value function.

Yep. I'll spend 8-16 bucks a month on lottery tickets. It's what I use spare cash left in my wallet for. It's not going to break the bank and I'm likely not going to win, but it's a nice pipe dream and where I live a decent amount of the money goes to the environment.

Playing the lottery is more paying for the fantasy of winning than actually expecting to. It makes for some fun office chats, and worth a couple of extra bucks.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#229

Post by warlox »

jopsen wrote: post #181
noonespecial wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" I propose "the bigger the print, the stronger the statement". Therefore, if you make one claim in 24 point and then attempt to rescind or modify it in 8 point, the 24 is legally binding because it was larger and so nullified the smaller. This also means that if you want to place limitations (like 'one per customer' etc)…

> I propose "the bigger the print, the stronger the statement". Therefore, if you make one claim in 24 point and then attempt to rescind or modify it in 8 point, the 24 is legally binding The EU has a ton of regulation like that.. For example you can't say "free" if it's associated with a subscription or other tricks. You must advertise the complete price if selling phones with binding subscription, etc.. IMO, there…

True, the current President has made a significant amount of money from scams like Trump University.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#230

Post by sanderjd »

Lazare wrote: post #112
xkcd-sucks wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The energy drink company's interest is to minimize its cost. Years of bad behavior in this regard eventually led to pure food/drug laws, but in places with weak rule of law plenty of people are still poisoned by dodgy food.

Oh yes, absolutely. We have laws banning outright fraud, setting minimum food safety standards, a lot of rules about packaging and labelling. And that's good! But we don't have any laws or expectation that a food vendor is going to be acting in my best interests. If I want to spend my rent money on 87 large pepperoni pizzas, nobody is going to arrest the guy who took my order because he didn't sit down and have a 30…

I think the outrage is because it seems to many people that "outright fraud" and "blatantly lie" are pretty apt descriptions of what happened here. It seems like the lawyers involved don't agree, but from my lay perspective it isn't easy to see why not.

Basically, people tend to think "false advertising" is fraudulent, even if that is not true from a legal perspective.

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