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They Used To Last 50 Years

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Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#221

Post by throwaway729 »

bnolsen wrote: post #197
mrbill wrote: post #174

When we moved into this house 12 years ago, I got the cheapest, simplest, most "mechanical" washer and dryer set that Lowe's offered (I think it's branded GE). Haven't had a single problem other than the light inside the dryer eventually burned out when a housemate left the door open. I know that when one of them eventually fails, it will hopefully be a cheap and simple mechanical fix. I have no desire to own a "majo…

A serious problem in the US was that regulation demanded clothes washer lids be locked when in operation. This led to forced electronics on clothes washers starting several years ago just to handle the automatic switch. I know Speed Queen was trying to delay this mess but I don't know if they are still manufacturing purely mechanical washers or not...

Is this true? I bought a (new) washer I never understood front-load anyways. Topload fails safe. Front load fails in a giant puddle all over your floor.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#222

Post by philipkglass »

beefman wrote: post #156

In a large class of models of global macroeconomic growth, instantaneous output grows over time relative to the integral of past output. This plausibly explains increasing "throwaway culture".[1] You wouldn't have wanted a computer from 1995 in the year 2000. And you probably don't want a phone from 2012 today. Well, everything is getting more like that. [1] https://twitter.com/clumma/status/593890418028253185

And yet with the slowdown of Moore's Law, I'm actually fine using a computer from 2012 for most tasks. I expect that using a 5 year old phone will eventually be just fine too. It's not like the 1990s anymore where everything ran perceptibly faster, with the exact same binaries, if you bought new hardware every couple of years.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#223

Post by [deleted] »

CarVac wrote: post #168
WalterBright wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> corrode Corrosion is unlikely to cause any problem with the heat exchanger unless it is really severe, as there are no moving parts in it. > nothing stops a circa-1994 Windows NT machine from continuing to work My older machines of that era have all failed due (most likely) to failed capacitors. The disk drives fail most likely due to lubrication issues. The semiconductors fail because all semiconductors fail due t…

Newer high-efficiency heat exchangers are much thinner than they were in the past, and failure there means carbon monoxide poisoning.

[deleted]

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#225

Post by theoh »

mkhalil wrote: post #220

Seems like a lot of the things that used to be a standard (e.g. metal thickness, quality paint coats) are now considered premium. Wolf for instance makes excellent appliances, but expect to pay anywhere from 3-10x more than a "standard" appliance. For using "older" methods/technologies. Crazy world we live in. note: Same can be said about furniture. Arhaus/Restoration Hardware is way more expensive than say ArtVan, f…

Sounds like a combination of commercial optimization (aka race-to-the-bottom) at one end of the market with William Morris-esque fetishization of solidity and sensible/traditional design at the other end.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#226

Post by pnathan »

lordnacho wrote: post #45

He mentions it in the article: It's a failure of feedback that makes this happen. If people can't get reliable information about quality, quality will not determine what they buy. Price will, and price is readily available. To get price down, you need costs down. To do that, you replace the parts with crappy parts. If feedback worked, people would know they were paying less for a less good appliance that will have mo…

Anytime I do anything around appliance shopping, the ability to get information about what is actually quality is near zero. It's SEO'd, spammed, paid-reviewed, and marketed into the ground.

Mattresses are similar, but fortunately, there is https://www.themattressunderground.com/ , which is a high quality site. I bought a Tuft and Needle mattress based on my learning there and it has been spectacular.

Similar needs to happen for appliances.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#227

Post by snowwrestler »

throwaway729 wrote: post #221
bnolsen wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A serious problem in the US was that regulation demanded clothes washer lids be locked when in operation. This led to forced electronics on clothes washers starting several years ago just to handle the automatic switch. I know Speed Queen was trying to delay this mess but I don't know if they are still manufacturing purely mechanical washers or not...

Is this true? I bought a (new) washer I never understood front-load anyways. Topload fails safe. Front load fails in a giant puddle all over your floor.

Front load is better in every other way: easier on your clothes, so they last longer. Uses less water and less soap. Can take bulky fragile items like a down comforter or a tent.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#228

Post by my_username_is_ »

gcb0 wrote: post #140
psadauskas wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The only explanation..."? What about "never attribute to malice..." and Occam's Razor. I think a more likely explanation is that in the majority of cases when shopping for an appliance and your choices are a $1500 one and a $2000 one, you buy the cheaper one. This forces manufacturers to compete on price, and to cut costs wherever possible to remain profitable. Additionally, I just spent 30 seconds googling and a wa…

don't look any further, I bought a 3k washer and dryer combination from LG 4 years ago. It boasted a ten year warranty! the paint, drum, motor, finish, everything looks like new. But, the controller board burned. I know my way around electronics, mind you, I can see exactly what is wrong (burned transformer), but the whole board is covered in some gelatin that makes any repair impossible. the power input board is als…

The gelatin covering the board does serve a purpose--it helps with vibration, among other things. It's called a potting compound, and you'll find it around electronic components in other high-vibration applications (automotive, power tools, etc.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potting_(electronics)

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#229

Post by coldtea »

valuearb wrote: post #153
coldtea wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "The only explanation..."? What about "never attribute to malice..." and Occam's Razor. Experience tells us that the simplest explanation for manufacturer's behavior is the kind of malice called "maximizing profit, all else be damned". That's Occam's Razor in use right there -- we would need to get out of our way to invent morally good businesses, incompetent engineers who can't get things to last, and modern conve…

Maximizing profits also involves making products at the price points customers want. If customers don't want to pay for 50 year appliances, why should they make one?

>Maximizing profits also involves making products at the price points customers want. If customers don't want to pay for 50 year appliances, why should they make one?

Are customers even offered the option?

And why would "50 year appliances" have to be more expensive? The simple parts, and more basic processes used to manufacture them don't sound like costing more. And they could drop most of the electronics, IoT crap, and fancy features. If the average household could buy a fridge in 1970, why wouldn't they be able to afford one today?

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#230

Post by bbcbasic »

Chai-T-Rex wrote: post #36

One thing that shouldn't be discounted is survivorship bias. The machines from the 1960s that broke early on aren't around anymore. The only machines from the 1960s that are left are those which last a long time.

That and you definitely wont find anecdotes of appliances that are 2 years old as of today lasting for 50 years.

You could say 'tortoises! they don't make them like they used to' for example.

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