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Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

latimes.com

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Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#221

Post by Animats »

Animats wrote: post #220
jschwartzi wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this why all the potatoes that I buy now have round, half-moon shaped cuts in them?

That's probably from the washing and root removal.[1] Those machines have drums, rollers, or vibrating screens which remove unwanted bits of root. Potato harvesters are simple. They drive a horizontal blade through the ground at root level, and bring up everything above the blade onto a conveyor with slots. The dirt falls through the slots back onto the ground, and the potatoes are carried upward. Here's an operation…

This is probably where the cuts come from.[1] That's a machine that separates potatoes from rocks and dirt clods by dry mechanical means. Notice the toothed wheels over which the potatoes pass. There are other machines which do the same job more gently by floating the potatoes in water, while the rocks sink, but this one doesn't need so much water.

If most of your product is headed for the peeler and french fry cutter, there's no advantage to keeping the potato skin intact.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo3rpXoAH7w

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#222

Post by kerbalspacepro »

kodfodrasz wrote: post #75
dragonwriter wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do we get the unemployed Midwesterners into Napa Valley? Just a thought: Government loans with low interest, delayed and income-contingent repayment, and forgiveness after a set period of on-time payments for relocation expenses for unemployed adults with job offers outside of their own immediate area. Getting people to where the work is good for the public fisc, good for employers, and good for the people invo…

But why move people out with large government funding? Why not move some work there?

That brings up the question, why is work in the metropoli (not a word, apparently, but it should be) of America and not the heartland?

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#223

Post by greedo »

diogenescynic wrote: post #87
greedo wrote: post #28

When I was younger, I worked at a McDonalds in SoCal. Almost all the employees were white teenagers. The managers were white as well. We didn't make much, just a bit above minimum wage, but we were all mostly high-school students or college students working in the summer to pay tuition. This went on until around 1984 or so, when it became much harder to hire this demographic. It wasn't as cool to work at fast food, a…

There are plenty of white teenagers who work at every In-N-Out I've ever been to--because they pay better. Otherwise those kids, in nicer areas like you point to, have better alternatives for minimum wage like retail. The reason the jobs you describe are being replaced by immigrants is because the wages have been stagnant or not kept up with inflation. Unskilled immigrants take labor jobs that Americans aren't really…

Agreed. When In-N-Out opened up near our franchise, the managers were in a panic because they were paying 75% higher hourly rates not to mention what they paid their managers.

Plus, fast-food jobs developed a stigma as loser/dead-end jobs. Teenagers needed spending money, but not at the cost of being "uncool."

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#224

Post by greedo »

diogenescynic wrote: post #87
greedo wrote: post #28

When I was younger, I worked at a McDonalds in SoCal. Almost all the employees were white teenagers. The managers were white as well. We didn't make much, just a bit above minimum wage, but we were all mostly high-school students or college students working in the summer to pay tuition. This went on until around 1984 or so, when it became much harder to hire this demographic. It wasn't as cool to work at fast food, a…

There are plenty of white teenagers who work at every In-N-Out I've ever been to--because they pay better. Otherwise those kids, in nicer areas like you point to, have better alternatives for minimum wage like retail. The reason the jobs you describe are being replaced by immigrants is because the wages have been stagnant or not kept up with inflation. Unskilled immigrants take labor jobs that Americans aren't really…

Agreed. When In-N-Out opened up near our franchise, the managers were in a panic because they were paying 75% higher hourly rates not to mention what they paid their managers.

Plus, fast-food jobs developed a stigma as loser/dead-end jobs. Teenagers needed spending money, but not at the cost of being "uncool."

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#225

Post by greedo »

gmarx wrote: post #119
greedo wrote: post #28

When I was younger, I worked at a McDonalds in SoCal. Almost all the employees were white teenagers. The managers were white as well. We didn't make much, just a bit above minimum wage, but we were all mostly high-school students or college students working in the summer to pay tuition. This went on until around 1984 or so, when it became much harder to hire this demographic. It wasn't as cool to work at fast food, a…

This change occurred in my town as well at about the same time. How do you know you are getting cause and effect right? I always assumed that after the amnesty in the first Bush administration it was just easier/cheaper/better attitude to get mexicans and the restaurants stopped hiring the high school kids. I don't think those jobs were ever considered cool for the high school kids but money is useful

Well, having worked there, and knowing how racist the owners/upper mgmt were, they would have preferred to hire only whites. Any productivity gains by hiring immigrants who "might" have worked harder were lost at least initially with communication issues until we had enough Spanish speakers to make things operate smoothly. And while we did have a few slacker white kids who just wanted an easy paycheck, I can't say that was true of the majority of white teens we employed.

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#226

Post by greedo »

mahyarm wrote: post #160
rogerbinns wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have franchises like the other chains. That is also why their rollout seems slow. This means the boss is the company, not a franchisee who will have their own way of doing things. They then make a reasonable effort of benefits for their employees: http://www.in-n-out.com/employment/restaurant.aspx

Do affluent teenagers care about benefits although when their parents very likely have benefits for them already?

My fellow teens only cared about how much money they made, if the uniforms made them look like idiots to the opposite sex, and what their schedule was.

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#227

Post by DoodleBuggy »

datatan wrote: post #85
DoodleBuggy wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess Georgians or Alabamans don't want the jobs either? That's weird! https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/05/17/the-law-of-... https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/alabama-law-drives-out-... Maybe they can get those senior citizens living high on the hog of Meals On Wheels to get out there and pick crops?

You're linking to articles half a decade old. Have any new data, you since the economy picked up?

Yes which does an even better job of proving the point. When the economy was worse and unemployment was higher, why didn't the huge numbers of unemployed who need jobs take those available jobs? Hmm!

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#228

Post by DoodleBuggy »

ng12 wrote: post #37
dragonwriter wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No. Californians don't want the jobs. Americans live in more than just CA Yes, but if they wanted the jobs, they'd come to CA for them. > I know a lot of people in CA find this hard to believe but there is a whole world outside of Sillycon Valley. Most people in California—who are, after all, themsleves outside of Silicon Valley, which is a small piece of the state—are well aware of that.

What's the equivalent of a $16 Napa salary in Nebraska? I really don't think it's worth moving for.

$16 in Napa is probably $2 in Nebraska. The cost of living there is so much lower than California you can barely compare the two. Homes are 1/10th the price or less.

You can find a nice house in Omaha for $175k that would cost about $2.5 million in Palo Alto for example.

When (if?) Bay Area workers ever figure this out they should telecommute from the midwest.

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#229

Post by gmarx »

dragonwriter wrote: post #169
gmarx wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This change occurred in my town as well at about the same time. How do you know you are getting cause and effect right? I always assumed that after the amnesty in the first Bush administration it was just easier/cheaper/better attitude to get mexicans and the restaurants stopped hiring the high school kids. I don't think those jobs were ever considered cool for the high school kids but money is useful

> I always assumed that after the amnesty in the first Bush administration A minor nitpick, but you are probably referring to the amnesty component of the 1986 immigration reform law, which was during the Reagan Administration, not the first Bush Administration.

Thanks

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#230

Post by smortaz »

palewire wrote: post #39
tn13 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great work guys at LA Times! That is very transparent.

Thanks. The Jupyter Notebook technology is great for us. It's nice that it helps us be transparent, and it's even better that it helps us keep our analysis readable, sharable and organized when it's in development.

palrewire, it would be great to have the notebook hosted on http://notebooks.azure.com so people can run it. thx.
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