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Time to Take a Stand

blog.samaltman.com

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Re: Time to Take a Stand

#221

Post by a3n »

grey-area wrote: post #128
a3n wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying we're there yet, but, at the risk of waking Godwin, at what point in 1930s Germany would violent protest finally be OK? We'll start at "Never," and work back from there.

The 1930s were full of violent protest - running battles on the streets between gangs of thugs on both sides (red vs Brown shirts). It helped Hitler portray himself as the law and order candidate. Peaceful but overwhelming mass civil disobedience and protest is better. The time for that is now.

You're right, the time for that is now.

And I'm hoping we never reach the need for more than that.

As for violent German protests, I'm pretty sure taking away those violent opposition protests would not have prevented Hitler from taking power. Perhaps they needed more violence. And indeed they eventually did get more violent opposition that did defeat them, by the West's armies.

Perhaps more violence in the thirties might have prevented WWII.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#222

Post by jacquesm »

jsperson wrote: post #58

It makes me sad that politics has made its way to the top of HN. I'm relatively new here. One of the things I love about the community is that it has been something of an oasis over the past few months. This is in no way intended to denigrate the esteemed author or his thesis. I'm just disappointed that we're at this point.

Look at it this way:

You can argue that want your little safe space where you can debate Erlang versus Go until the Titanic has gone down but at some point everything is politics and your life too will be affected (and likely not in a positive sense).

Not all that long ago PG wanted to argue against the death penalty and it got debated wide and far, but not on HN because hey, we're techies and we can't be bothered with such un-important stuff, we're too busy changing the world.

And then one day you look up from your keyboard and you realize that that little bubble you were living in is now affecting you and those around you. There is no safe space, that's just an illusion you can only afford to keep for so long.

HN is only an oasis by virtue of willful ignorance about stuff that really matters and that is spinning out of control at a very rapid rate. Ignore it at your peril.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#223

Post by gaius »

barrkel wrote: post #187
methehack wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Mr. Altman is largely addressing tech CEOs here and urging them to make public statements. The actions you list are great for you and me, but he's mostly not really talking to us. Supporting quotations from the post (because evidence): "The tech community is powerful. Large tech companies in particular have enormous power and are held in high regard. We need to hear from the CEOs clearly and unequivocally" "A…

Brexit re-demonstrated that business interests are ultimately secondary to politics, populist politics especially.

Populist is just what the losing side calls democracy.

See also elitism vs meritocracy.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#224

Post by thedevil »

mozumder wrote: post #74

You really do need to demonize Trump voters. Most of them are in favor of his horrible policies, and are malicious themselves. You're never going to get anywhere without recognizing the source of the problem.

There is a book I recently read:

https://www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-Negotiating-De...

This is a book about negotiation written by a hostage negotiator. It was an eye-opener that I needed.

One of the key principles is that you don't accuse or attack (something I still need to work on myself).

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#225

Post by general_ai »

Scirra_Tom wrote: post #178
general_ai wrote: post #100

First, it's not a "ban". It's a temporary suspension until new vetting procedures are put in place. Second, it's not "Muslim". Muslims from all other countries (some of them pretty large, e.g. Indonesia and Pakistan), will experience no change in their ability to enter the US. Other than Iran (which imo shouldn't be on the list) we're bombing and droning all of those countries at the moment. It's insane to accept mil…

> First, it's not a "ban". It's a temporary suspension until new vetting procedures are put in place. He's got his foot in the door. That's all he needs right now. > But there's another aspect of this that baffles me. Somehow Sam has no issues with democrats totally destabilizing the Middle East, and funding/arming ISIS to depose Assad. Yet the moment Trump attempts to mitigate the negative side effects of that to th…

Trump stated his intention to stabilize the region. So far he has demonstrated very clearly that he intends to keep his promises. All that needs to happen there is we need to stop arming ISIS, and join forces with Russia and Assad's government to destroy ISIS. It'll be over in a year or two.

And if you find the US interventionism repugnant, congratulations, we now have a president who is against it, too.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#226

Post by the_cat_kittles »

zeteo wrote: post #169

>1. Call 2. Participate 3. Share 4. Vote This is the same kind of bullshit that's lost Hillary the election and got us here in the first place. It might have worked in the '90s to get a gold medal for Rosa Parks. It will not work in 2017 to make Trump back off his core message. The problem here is not that your side isn't loud enough and can't get political attention for an issue. The problem is that the opposing sid…

very unhelpful. i think any way to signal that trump and his policies are unpopular is helpful. if everyone knows that a vast majority of people are going to vote against him next time, congress people do not have to bend to his will, and world leaders do not feel as pressured to work with him. it seems like maintaining an illusion of popularity is paramount for history's bad political regimes, i think this is why. even in places that aren't democracies, when everyone knows you aren't popular, you seem to lose power. i think things like marches and calling congress people help because of this. certainly more than soul searching.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#227

Post by the8472 »

zeteo wrote: post #169

>1. Call 2. Participate 3. Share 4. Vote This is the same kind of bullshit that's lost Hillary the election and got us here in the first place. It might have worked in the '90s to get a gold medal for Rosa Parks. It will not work in 2017 to make Trump back off his core message. The problem here is not that your side isn't loud enough and can't get political attention for an issue. The problem is that the opposing sid…

> This is the same kind of bullshit that's lost Hillary the election and got us here in the first place.

Wasn't low democrat turnout part of the problem?

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#229

Post by ebola1717 »

myblake wrote: post #183
Scirra_Tom wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most of them voted for him for reasons other than the promise of a Muslim ban Source? June 2016, 48% of Republican votes strongly support a ban on Muslims entering the U.S: https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/6ecRKMebsPAFHon1HVC86QbFYTg...

That means 52% of Republicans don't strongly support it, and Trump was elected by a mix of Republicans, independents and even Some Democrats.

His mix of indepedent and democratic voters pulled largely from the 12% of democrats and 31% of independents that support the ban. Again, it was literally his platform.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#230

Post by mynameishere »

stonogo wrote: post #168

> This is very important people It's also complete bullshit. I actually live in a Trump-supporting area, and everyone I know who voted for him is ecstatic about this disgusting, offensive action. Trump is a bad person, and the people who voted for him are bad people, and I hope to God I 'push them away' as far as they'll get from me.

Well, you simply have to explain to people all the benefits that come from importing Muslims (especially refugees) into one's country. Perhaps use real-life examples like France and Germany to illustrate your point. People are more willing to be rational than you think--they aren't necessarily acting from some "disgusting" core impulse.
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