Microsoft: more people are switching from Macs to Surface than ever before • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft: more people are switching from Macs to Surface than ever before

#221

Post by astrodust » Mon, Dec 12, 2016, 5:52 PM UTC

zapt02 wrote: post #79

astrodust wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows itself isn't bad, but the driver ecosystem is completely rotten. Any muppet with a code signing certificate is apparently capable of writing driver code that gets injected into the kernel.

But this isn't a problem if you buy quality hardware?

Yes. It's often the case that a good motherboard will have some super generic driver either for the ethernet component or the on-board audio chip.

It's truly astonishing how bad it is even with big name vendors like Asus.

Re: Microsoft: more people are switching from Macs to Surface than ever before

#222

Post by JustSomeNobody » Mon, Dec 12, 2016, 5:52 PM UTC

bhauer wrote: post #204

josefresco wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you were looking for excuse to go back to Apple.

Agreed. Though I have no idea what motivates other people, and opinions vary, so I can't say the decision to go back to Apple is wrong. I am surprised that for all of the online ordering we do in today's society, so many people use bricks-and-mortar stores for their high-tech purchases. I had my Surface Book shipped to my doorstep like most anything else I purchase in my life. I find it unpleasant to go into Apple st…

For something like a laptop, I have to get my hands on it. I hate any kind of keyboard flex.

Re: Microsoft: more people are switching from Macs to Surface than ever before

#223

Post by lmm » Mon, Dec 12, 2016, 5:53 PM UTC

astrodust wrote: post #74

erokar wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using Macs since 2008. My next machine will probably be a Thinkpad or a Dell. Apple has dropped the ball too many times now, both hardware and software vice. And somehow everything Apple does now feels stale and off mark.

No OS license key. No "Patch Tuesday". No finger pointing between hardware vendor and OS vendor. No third party drivers necessary to clean boot. Built-in backup system, both to "cloud" if desired or external hard disk if preferred. Application signing that serves to protect users rather than nag them into unquestioningly running anything and everything as administrator. Fantastic, fully native support for the wealth…

> No OS license key

Not something you see as a user, at least on the Surface.

> No "Patch Tuesday"

Because Apple leaves you running vulnerable software for months at a time. (Remember the zlib double free?)

> No finger pointing between hardware vendor and OS vendor. No third party drivers necessary to clean boot.

Not an issue with Surface.

> Fantastic, fully native support for the wealth of open-source software available for UNIX/BSD.

"Linux on Windows" may theoretically be non-native but it's a better experience than mac - real apt-get, install anything that works on Ubuntu without having to compile anything yourself. And has OSX figured out how to display any OSS GUIs yet?

Re: Microsoft: more people are switching from Macs to Surface than ever before

#224

Post by exhilaration » Mon, Dec 12, 2016, 5:54 PM UTC

rcavezza wrote: post #182

TruthSHIFT wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad you're having a good experience with the new MBP. However, I wouldn't plug a $.70 adapter into a $3000 computer. Maybe you should splurge and spend $10 on the Apple adapter.

Although price can sometimes be an indicator of quality, it doesn't necessarily mean quality. I think this is especially true when the alternative higher priced product has a lot of "Brand Value" that can be attributed to the higher price.

Since cheap USB-C cables and chargers are known for destroying laptops [1] I would heed the parent's advice.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11021665

Re: Microsoft: more people are switching from Macs to Surface than ever before

#225

Post by Kluny » Mon, Dec 12, 2016, 5:56 PM UTC

fredley wrote: post #120

johnernaut wrote: post #115

I'm one of the people that switched from a MacBook Pro to the new Surface Book. The ENTIRE experience was dreadful for me. The day I went into the Microsoft store to purchase it (Black Friday), their credit card system was down, so I had to wait around for nearly 2 hours until they finally figured things out. That wouldn't typically upset me, but my brother-in-law went through something similar just 2 weeks prior. As…

Trackpads are one of the main things that other companies just can't get right, even on premium devices. Given how long ago Apple 'solved' trackpads, I'm amazed that the rest of the industry hasn't caught up.

It's not just the hardware either, it's the drivers. Try using bootcamp on a macbook pro. The previously-perfect trackpad becomes unusable. There is an apple-recommended driver you can install that helps, but not much.

Re: Microsoft: more people are switching from Macs to Surface than ever before

#226

Post by astrodust » Mon, Dec 12, 2016, 5:57 PM UTC

cmdrfred wrote: post #82

astrodust wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visual Studio for Windows applications and XCode for iOS ones pin you to particular platforms. > For that use, Windows 10 is not only adequate but better than MacOS. "Denny's is as good as any Michelin Star restaurant."

Dollar for dollar Denny's is as good as any Michelin Star restaurant.

If you could afford to eat at both, if the difference in cost was mostly inconsequential, which one would you choose on a regular basis?

Re: Microsoft: more people are switching from Macs to Surface than ever before

#227

Post by hboon » Mon, Dec 12, 2016, 5:57 PM UTC

philliphaydon wrote: post #208

johnernaut wrote: post #115

I'm one of the people that switched from a MacBook Pro to the new Surface Book. The ENTIRE experience was dreadful for me. The day I went into the Microsoft store to purchase it (Black Friday), their credit card system was down, so I had to wait around for nearly 2 hours until they finally figured things out. That wouldn't typically upset me, but my brother-in-law went through something similar just 2 weeks prior. As…

We don't have Microsoft stores here in Asia so I really cannot compare. But I absolutely hate going into Apple or iStudio stores. They try to upsell and add all sorts of crap. When I bought my 12" Macbook I ended up leaving the store and buying it online. I just went in to the store today to buy a case for my new iPhone 7 and I wanted a flip case just so i didn't need a screen protector and the guy kept insisting on…

Let me guess. Singapore? Good news is, an Apple store is coming.

Re: Microsoft: more people are switching from Macs to Surface than ever before

#228

Post by bhauer » Mon, Dec 12, 2016, 5:57 PM UTC

Stratoscope wrote: post #94

martijn_himself wrote: post #18

I can't believe anyone using macOS for their professional workflow would consider switching to Windows 10 despite all the criticism leveled at Apple's hardware (most of which I think is totally justified). I use Windows professionally (for .NET development) and I think Windows 10 is still light-years behind, with an unstable, jarring OS experience full of bugs and niggles and unloved and underdeveloped touch interfac…

> Fonts and UI rendering look awful on Windows compared to macOS, there is just no comparison. I've heard a number of people say this, and I'm always puzzled because it is exactly the opposite for me. Running on the same hardware (late 2013 MBPR 15"), Windows 10 font rendering is much more pleasing to my eyes. When I boot into OSX, the text looks terrible to me. (I'm still running El Capitan - has text rendering chan…

Many confuse hardware differences (low-DPI versus high-DPI screens) with operating system differences.

Windows has had sub-pixel text alignment and LCD-oriented anti-aliasing ("ClearType") for, what, a decade? Text on my 267-DPI Surface Book looks absolutely amazing, and obviously text on a 226-DPI Macbook will look great as well.

For those who are not confused by hardware differences, I suspect the remaining matters are taste and familiarity. Having used Windows for a long time, my preference is for Windows' rendering and I find the rendering on macOS to be odd and uncomfortable. I'm struggling to find the right adjective—perhaps too comical or whimsical? Overall font selections and rendering don't seem as crisp and professional as on Windows.

Windows also supports ligatures and advanced kerning, so text on a web browser with good Windows API support (e.g., Edge or Firefox) looks fantastic. (Chrome was a notable laggard here, refusing to use modern Windows text rendering APIs for a very long time.)

Re: Microsoft: more people are switching from Macs to Surface than ever before

#229

Post by astrodust » Mon, Dec 12, 2016, 5:59 PM UTC

gumby wrote: post #134

cmdrfred wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dollar for dollar Denny's is as good as any Michelin Star restaurant.

I think this was flagged down because it was flippant but the statement is true and insightful. And I think it's is a big driver of why the App Store went to FTP. I've eaten €1500 meals at 3 star restaurants like L'Ambroisie and $10 Grand Slam meals at denny's. They fill different roles and both can be enjoyable. For years there was a restaurant in Palo Alto that was really quite good and which my wife loved to visit…

> I was never happy because while the food and ambience were good...

...supply and demand. That you were willing to eat there despite the higher prices suggests you found value in the food. You can bitch about higher prices all you want, but you paid them.

Likewise, for a lot of professionals the difference between a $3000 MacBook and a $1500 Windows notebook over the lifespan of 3-4 years is inconsequential. You could easily make up the difference by brewing your own coffee versus getting something at a store.

Re: Microsoft: more people are switching from Macs to Surface than ever before

#230

Post by mikestew » Mon, Dec 12, 2016, 5:59 PM UTC

rcavezza wrote: post #182

TruthSHIFT wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad you're having a good experience with the new MBP. However, I wouldn't plug a $.70 adapter into a $3000 computer. Maybe you should splurge and spend $10 on the Apple adapter.

Although price can sometimes be an indicator of quality, it doesn't necessarily mean quality. I think this is especially true when the alternative higher priced product has a lot of "Brand Value" that can be attributed to the higher price.

In the case of Apple-branded adapters, it has been demonstrated time and again that they actually put some thought into their adapters so that your device or house do not catch on fire. Not so much with the $0.70 ones. Maybe, likely not, but hey, you saved $9.70 that you can apply to your home owners insurance premium!