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Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

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Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the Nazi regime. To the Communist regimes. To Turkey (Armenian genocide). To Rwanda. To Serbia. But not to everyone, I'll agree.

I would say that our genocide of the indigenous people's of North America was just as bad as either of those. ..and we're still invading their lands and violating treaties with them.

This is a bit misleading, given the documented atrocities that certain Native American tribes committed against settlers.

Fact is, there was no future in which they were going to keep their nice things and in which we would be able to get where we are today.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We did not choose war willingly, the japanese govt made the choice for us when they attacked pearl harbor.

Major General Smedley Butler, in 1935: "At each session of Congress the question of further naval appropriations comes up. The swivel-chair admirals of Washington (and there are always a lot of them) are very adroit lobbyists. And they are smart. They don't shout that "We need a lot of battleships to war on this nation or that nation." Oh no. First of all, they let it be known that America is menaced by a great naval…

Sure, maybe those maneuvers were provocative, but they do not rise to the same level of responsibility as launching the first actual attack. Japan bears responsibility for taking the bait.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strange how enforcing borders began to be seen as controversial. The explanation that makes the most sense to me is, some people see free movement across borders as a human right, while others view a country as their home, and so should have the right to decide who to let in.

I am surprised by the same thing. We have a legal process for crossing those borders, and if you circumvent that process you are a criminal. How is that controversial? Separately, if you believe the process is bad, or borders should be open, or whatever -- by all means, fight for that using the frameworks we have.

So your viewpoint is that, if the law on the books criminalizes an enormous number of people who are not really harming anyone, then one should nonetheless support rounding those people up using whatever means necessary?

I mean, I guess your view is consistent and makes some kind of sense. Selective enforcement of the law is a bad thing in many ways, and in an ideal world there would perhaps be no difference between "technically illegal" and an actually enforced crime. Perhaps disastrous policies like rounding up medical marijuana users, longtime undocumented residents, jaywalkers, "sodomites" before Lawrence v. Texas, miscegenators before Loving v Virginia, etc., etc., would "heighten the contradictions" and force civil society to legislate what it actually wanted to punish.

I'm confused how you could be confused by the opposite viewpoint though. The opposite viewpoint is informed by millenia of the reality of law, which is that laws are often not enforced because they don't make sense, and a zealous enforcement of an existing law can be a radical, destructive break with an informal rule. For those of us who see this as simply part of reality, a given proposal to increase or decrease the enforcement of existing laws must be weighed against its practical effects.

The proposal to enforce the immigration laws is controversial because it will cause an enormous amount of suffering, it solves no real problems, it will weaken the US economy, and it is motivated by racial animus and xenophobia.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#224

"The very fact that no sabotage has taken place to date is a disturbing and confirming indication that such action will be taken." — General John L. DeWitt, head of the U.S. Army’s Western Defense Command Insane reasoning.

I came back after reading/seeing the photographs to post the same quote. My jaw dropped when I read it. Unbelievable, yet so topical.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Communists of various stripes murdered somewhere around 100 million people in the last century. What, exactly, counts as "overly zealous" in that context?

Counter-examples abound: the US actively suppressed democracy in Latin America and elsewhere when it didn't suit American business interests, hence Guatemala. Likewise, a great number of deaths at the hand of Communist leaders were due to utter incompetence and mismanagement, such as in China's Cultural Revolution and Great Leap Forward. My rule of thumb is that it's basically a bad thing when somebody dies who shoul…

Please provide a "counter-example" where the United States murdered 100 million people.

Thanks.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#226
If you want the book from 2006, it's available on Amazon.[1] Most of this material is available on line, from the National Archives or the University of California.[2][3] It's not new.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Impounded-Dorothea-Censored-Japanese-... [2] https://www.archives.gov/research/alic/reference/military/ja... [3] https://calisphere.org/exhibitions/t11/jarda/

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#227
post #91

Just another example of the extreme moral ambiguity of the West. We regularly ignore our own standards around giving people a fair trial when it suits the executive of the day or when some stupid condition applies ("race" in this case, geography and citizenship for eg Guantanamo bay). Not to mention "strategic" alliances with dictators down the years that have usually proven to be murderous. It is sad to think that t…

> It is sad to think that the myth of our moral superiority has never been anything else. No, it's real, just not as real as we like to think. Between "imprison people of Japanese ancestry for the rest of the war, then free them" and "imprison people of Jewish ancestry, then kill them", there is a real moral difference. They are both wrong, but they are not equal.

No dispute here over relative merits, but if moral superiority over the perpetrators of the holocaust is all we are aiming for then the bar is frighteningly low.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must be missing something, but China is actually doing "bad things" now. The Japanese internment happened ~75 years ago. I like to think that the "West" has progressed since then. (That's not say that everything's just fine and dandy, but there is a clear difference between the West and, say, China today.)

"I must be missing something, but China is actually doing "bad things" now. The Japanese internment happened ~75 years ago. I like to think that the "West" has progressed since then." Well, I suppose you are missing all what happened after September 11 2001, including Guantanamo bay detention camp ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp ).

Don't forget the detention centers for "migrants" (often people fleeing war) and the fact that the UK has now legalised a surveillance state that the stasi would have had erotic dreams about.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the Nazi regime. To the Communist regimes. To Turkey (Armenian genocide). To Rwanda. To Serbia. But not to everyone, I'll agree.

Hitler cited the US actions against Native Americans in the same breath as the Armenian genocide - as reasons he could eliminate the Jews and suffer no ill effects.

And he would probably have been right, had he not coupled it with a war of aggression against enough of the world to get every major power not in the Axis aligned against it.

The Nazi's downfall wasn't the genocide against Jews and other "undesirables", for all that that became the basis of punishment for some ex-regime figures after the Nazis were defeated.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#230
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It kind of already is happening in the US right now in the form of "Family detention centers" intended to detain non-citizens slated for deportation. If Trump's administration seriously plans on "rounding up" millions of people for deportation, they'll have to be lodged somewhere while they are tried (assuming they're granted trials, who knows anymore) and travel arrangements are made. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/…

Strange how enforcing borders began to be seen as controversial. The explanation that makes the most sense to me is, some people see free movement across borders as a human right, while others view a country as their home, and so should have the right to decide who to let in.

There are illegal aliens in this country because this country let them come in. We let them in so they can pick fruits, landscape our lawns, babysit our children, all at a huge discount.

So yes, we all got financial benefits out of it. Now, suddenly turning around to punish people who we benefited from strikes as hypocritical, to put it politely.

If were are just enforcing the laws now, it would be only fair to write a big fat check to each deportee before sending them on their way.

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