California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents • Hacker News Board

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#221

Post by dionidium » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 5:31 PM UTC

maxsilver wrote: post #204

api wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the "alpha cities" phenomenon explode since 2000. Where you live has become a proxy for your competence, importance, etc. I'm not convinced it's not the Internet. Google "FOMO" for a possible mechanism. The Internet makes it easy for large cities, by sheer social mass, to send out a louder cultural signal and convince everyone else they are missing something by not being there. Talk to a young midwesterner…

> Talk to a young midwesterner and you will hear many whose ambition is to "get to NY," with this vague sense that magic will happen when they do. Eventually if you are not in SF or NYC you are nobody. Speaking as a late-20's midwesterner, I don't think it's about success or "FOMO" as much as it is about lifestyle. The Midwest doesn't have real cities (except for Chicago). You really can't have an urban lifestyle in…

it's doesn't even remotely compare to somewhere like Boston or NYC or DC or Philadelphia or San Francisco or Seattle.

The benefits fall off pretty quickly after NYC, Chicago, LA, and San Francisco. As a Midwesterner who has long considered a move for exactly the reasons you mentioned, my reaction to a move to Philadelphia or Seattle or Austin (or whatever) is basically, "why bother?" I can live an "urban enough by comparison" lifestyle right here.

But, that's not true of the Big Four.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#222

Post by khuey » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 5:31 PM UTC

huherto wrote: post #154

sphinx65 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they were promises made a long, long time ago, when interest rates were high enough to support the idea of pensions and retirement?

Excuse my ignorance. How are interest rates and pensions connected?

The higher investment returns are, the less money I need to set aside now to pay future obligations. The lower they are, the more I need to set aside.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#223

Post by toephu2 » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 5:32 PM UTC

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #167

Anyone else alarmed that a doctor was leaving because the rent was too high? A doctor is one of the jobs that is expected to pay top dollar in American society. If a doctor can't make it in the Bay Area, who's going to cut your hair, serve your beer, or mow your lawn? If wages don't rise in line with skyrocketing living costs, then the only alternative is a permenantly impoverished underclass. People of the Bay Area:…

btw, how much do doctors (specifically primary care physicians) make in the Bay Area? They don't get bonuses nor stock, just base salary right?

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#224

Post by npsimons » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 5:32 PM UTC

arethuza wrote: post #131

shawndumas wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived in Long Island, NY and Boca Raton, FL I gotta say... I don't think I could leave the Bay Area. The weather, the geological features, the schools, the meetups, the job opportunities... all factors. But the biggest is that the people are truly interested in intellectual matters in a way that was not extant in the other places I've lived. My son is a programmer and nobody had a clue what he was talking abou…

What geological features of the Bay Area do you regard as a plus point? NB Not being snarky - I live in Edinburgh which is overflowing with geological features [hence arguably being the birthplace of geology as a science] and I love that factor but the main geological feature of the Bay Area would appear to be a major disadvantage rather than a feature?

> What geological features of the Bay Area do you regard as a plus point?

I believe they may be talking about the Sierra Nevada range, with mountaineering matched only by places in the Andes, Himalayas or Alps. Yosemite is the climbing capital of the world and the birthplace of modern rock climbing. Sure, it's not right in the Bay area, but you can easily drive to a trail head within a half day or less.

Little known secret: the East side of the Sierras is where all the best action is at and the real estate is cheaper (although still overpriced). The downside is the tech jobs are few and far between and if you like urban environments, there aren't really any.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#225

Post by hx87 » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 5:33 PM UTC

sbardle wrote: post #188

pj_mukh wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I am working with extremely smart, driven people who I am learning a ton from." This is something being overlooked completely. There aren't a lot of other places that have this concentration of progressive minded bright (tech and non-tech) individuals. Great things will come out of this density. It sucks that the non-techies are being pushed out, but that should accelerate the need for housing reform. This density m…

At the risk of the grossest generalisation, the Bay Area has worked because it's combined two very different types of people. On the one hand, the engineers/techies (with roots in the defence industry and conservative midwest backgrounds) and on the other, the idealists/utopians (with roots in the counter-culture movement). Strange bedfellows, but a world-changing combination back then. I don't live in the Valley now…

If it is a monoculture now, it's because the engineer culture took on counterculture values while pricing the actual counterculture out of the region. The engineers still have their conservatism in that they tend to think of as many possible failure modes as possible and try to address then when they can. It's just not recognizable as such because the rational, cautious, establishmentarian 1950s conservatism has been almost completely replaced by emotional, religious, populist conservatism.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#226

Post by npsimons » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 5:35 PM UTC

irrational wrote: post #184

jmharvey wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you're thinking about the earthquake risk. We haven't had a major quake here in a generation, and people have short memories. The San Andreas fault exists day-to-day as a pretty chain of lakes. I'd also count being in a place where the mountains meet the ocean as a plus, as well as the golden gate (the waterway, not the bridge, though the bridge ain't half bad, either). And a few hours away you've got Big Su…

You should move to Portland. We have all of that and more. No wait, the Californians are already ruining Portland. Please, do not move here.

You can keep Portland: no fourteeners and too much bloody rain. I'll take my SoCal where I can climb 365 days of the year.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#227

Post by hx87 » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 5:36 PM UTC

jrnichols wrote: post #140

abduhl wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I move around and travel a lot for work - I've lived in 4 states in the last 2 years (CO, WA, CA, TX) - and one of the universal things across all the midwest and west coast that I've found is that while most people like the weather/scenery in California EVERYONE hates people from California, except for the people in California. I've heard the saying "California would be great if it wasn't for the people" in literall…

I moved out of California to Texas a few years ago, and part of the reason (besides housing prices) was that I too was sick of Californians. The idea used to be "California leads, the nation follows" but politically, that's changed, and I frequently hear about how sick of Californians everyone else is. Tired of people from CA moving to their areas and trying to change it politically. I can see their point.

"California leads, the nation follows" and "tired of people from CA moving to their areas and trying to change it politically" don't exactly contradict each other.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#228

Post by WalterBright » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 5:38 PM UTC

rconti wrote: post #215

WalterBright wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seattle has much the same, with the plus of waterskiing in the middle of the city on Lake Washington. Of course, the boom in prices is affecting Seattle, too.

Yeah, I lived over half my life up there. West coast geography is just what I consider "normal". I don't think I could live in other regions of the country as happily. I didn't find housing costs to be that far out of whack with the increased salary when I moved to the Bay Area, though. And I found the soul crushingly bad traffic at the time to be worse in Seattle than in the Bay. My #1 reason was the weather, though…

I like the rain in Seattle. It makes things peaceful, and the wet air smells good. (I grew up in Arizona, where 367 days of clear blue sky gets a bit boring .)

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#229

Post by hx87 » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 5:38 PM UTC

superswordfish wrote: post #175

pm90 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you mean?

The death penalty, and heavy incarceration with atrocious conditions.

Most Texans, let alone Californians fleeing high prices, don't have to worry about such things. Besides, the death penalty isn't exactly a negative if the alternative is life in (a Texas) prison.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#230

Post by hx87 » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 5:41 PM UTC

Decade wrote: post #139

wbsun wrote: post #35

People are considering killing Prop 13, which will make more residents leave.

In my personal fantasy, killing Proposition 13 would be done in a progressive manner. Grandma who has paid off her house in Westwood Park and is now a paper millionaire would still keep her 1975 property tax level, but Disneyland would be taxed at currently prevailing rates. http://www.ocregister.com/taxdollars/strong-477502-ownership... http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/jun/29/convers...

In my personal fantasy, Grandma would keep her 1975 property tax level, as long as her municipality allows her and her neighbors to build or convert her house into apartments. Low property taxes should be rewards for a lack of NIMBYism.