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Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

#221
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can fix this, we can take the carbon out of the atmosphere [1]. There is reason for optimism. We. Are. Not. Doomed. The optimum level of carbon is probably slightly above pre-industrial levels. We definitely need to get back below 350ppm to keep human civilization... civilized. 400ppm+ is a trajectory to anarchy. The chimpanzee raiding impulse is alive and well in our DNA, a survival adaptation for stagnation and…

>...Energy storage is possible. Possible, but except for pumped hydro, it looks like still a lot of work needs to be done. >...3) Fusion is attainable in the time frame we need it in, if we increase research funding, but its not required. That said if we cracked fusion, we would have all the energy we would need to desalinate seawater and sequester carbon. I am not sure if fusion is attainable in the time frame neede…

Breeder reactors like fast neutron reactor main advantage is less radioactive waste, there is enough of uranium in world to feed the old light water reactors for thousands of years too, but they produce lot of radioactive waste which could be used as fuel and inactivated in breeder reactors.

Re: Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. The big fear with climate change is that it's irreversible. That is not the case with the other problems you mention. 2. Climate change is predicted to cause food supply problems for hundreds of millions of people, trillions of dollars of economic damage, and rising sea levels that flood coastal cities. I don't see how the other problems you mention are more dire. 3. The problems you mention – homelessness, drug a…

I've been hearing about the sky falling because of climate change most of my life. Yet in the 1970s it was global cooling. The easiest way to convince someone of a particular 'danger' is to promise world-ending catastrophe. The science was 'settled' on Eugenics during the early 20th century as well and we saw how that turned out. There's no mention of any positive effects of global warming. The climate is certainly c…

"The science has been misappropriated by anti-capitalist activists." That is an undeniable fact - last time I entered the local university I needed to fist-bump a guy like Che, chant a few slogans, spit on a Friedman picture and show latest Naomi Klein book at the fraternity doormen. Oh god it was awful.

Re: Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

#223
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, these things will be rendered insignificant in the fullness of time, but as a human's with limited lives, it's still important to maintain empathy towards the human suffering of the here-and-now, and the very near future. It will be painful, it will be stressful, and we need to brace ourselves for the reality that many of our fellow humans will die from famine, regional war, and refugee crises whilst we struggle…

Well at least we are unlikely to starve: satellite imaging shows very significant greening of the planet in many areas previously barren. How so? As the Ontario Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs puts it, “The benefits of carbon dioxide supplementation on plant growth and production within the greenhouse environment have been well understood for many years. For the majority of greenhouse crops, net photo…

But this means more carbs in plant and less proteins, the diluted nutrients is said to be cause of bees dieng off, as they eat pollen for their protein needs and pollen has less protein, because plants dillute it with all that extra carbohydrate productions caused by more co2 in atmosphere

Re: Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

#224
Its nice picking your time scales and models to convey a message as this image shows when CO2 was in the thousands parts per million. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Phaneroz...

Now whilst its true the sun is heating up before it goes super nova millions of years in the future, which is what alot of the global warming fear is based on, and yes man has contributed a small % of CO2 by releasing CO2 from fossil fuels and cut down trees, the biggest threat facing mankind in the next 30 years is the Grand Solar Minimum.

A Grand Solar Minimum (GSM) is where the sunspots in the 11 year solar cycle reduce in frequency and strength and extreme weather becomes common place.

Sun spots reduce extreme weather events.

The last GSM was seen during the Dalton Minimum and Maunder Minimum, which are now classed as mini ice ages. When this occurred we had things like increased volcanic activity which lead to the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_Without_a_Summer but extreme cold weather with temperatures seen in the UK of -37 Degrees C, sea ports and the English channel freezing over, extreme winds which did things like blow copious amounts of sand inland, leading to houses being buried in places like Santon Downham, massive inland sand dunes which is what Thetford Forest is planeted on in a bid to return the soil back to some use, but most importantly estimates suggest around 25% of the global population died due to cold and famine due to crop failures.

Today we have increased crop yields so whilst more land has been turned over to agriculture with modern farming practices, the risk is still very much a major threat in the next few decades as a hectare will feed more mouths today than it did during the medieval ice age and the global population has ballooned since the introduction of oil.

There are steps you can take yourself though to reduce your risk, like buying suitable farm land whilst also investing in solar which can power air source heat pumps in case energy supplies & communication become disrupted due to extreme weather events.

1 Watt of solar power can provide upto 3 Watts of heat energy from air source heat pumps. These are just like air con units working in reverse.

Now whilst no one wants to create a panic, looking at the facts in context is important and these points we need to bear in mind.

Firstly there were no meteorological offices during the medieval ice ages, so the evidence amassed by Professor Brian Fagan which you can read about in his book "The Little Ice Age: How Climate Made History 1300-1850" explains how man was affected and were very likely the drivers of political events that led to the French Revolution, the Irish Potatoe famine and more.

Its also worth pointing out that differences in the scientific community means no one really knows whether our manmade CO2 is going to benefit us or not when considering plants grow better with more CO2.

So there you go, a brief introduction of what TPTB are currently capitalizing on, if you fancy capitalizing on it yourself in innovative ways yourself.

Re: Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

#225
For context, CO2 has been in the thousands parts per million in the past. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Phanerozoic_Carbon_Dioxid...

Sure the planet is warming up as the sun slowly goes super nova in millions of years time, but the biggest short term risk we face in the next 30 years which could last 500 years is the Grand Solar Minimum (GSM)

A GSM is where sunspots drop off and the planet experiences extreme weather patterns which are now seeing now. To a limited degree we see this at the start and end of each 11 yr solar cycle anyway.

This last occurred during the Dalton and Maunder minimum, when 25% of the planets population died due to famine and cold.

It triggered political events like the French Revolution, the Irish Potatoe famine and more.

In the UK temps as low as -37 Degrees C were seen, with sea ports frozen, the English Channel froze keeping ships locked in port or stuck out in open water. Extreme winds lead to massive inland sand dunes which is what Thetford Forest is now planted on in bid to return the soil slowly back to use, the village of Santon Downham had so much sand deposited on it that a few houses were buried. The forest was only planted in the early 1900's.

To re-evalute the history of geo-political events during the medieval ice age and what you may have been taught in history, I would suggest reading the book by Professor Brian Fagan on the mini age, written in the 00's.

Now whilst we had no meteorological offices during the medieval ice age, we can still get valuable insight by learning from history like what Professor Fagan has hilighted in his book, plus depending on what scientific models you listen to, we really dont know how the CO2 released by man from oil and cutting down trees is going to do. Plants grow better in CO2 as seen with dinosaurs and plants during the time when CO2 was in the thousands ppm so our actions may actually be a blessing in disguise, but bear in mind whilst we have higher crop yields today due to modern farming methods, the risk is now greater as one hectare of farm land now feeds more mouths today than ever before.

With that in mind, you can take steps to minimise any impact on yourself, by taking up gardening, and investing in things like air source heat pumps with solar. 1 W of solar energy can create upto 3W of heat energy which is useful should you ever be cut off from the mains. Air source heat pumps are just over priced air con units working in reverse.

By being forewarned is to be forearmed, so whilst the TPTB like to treat people like idiots because you then get dependent idiots, I feel its better to tell the truth so that people can think and innovate their way out of problems which you may be able to capitalise in lucrative ways.

Re: Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

#226
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the time frames for returning to pre-human levels is longer than a few thousand years [1, 2]. 1. http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2005/03/how-lo... 2. http://www.nature.com/climate/2008/0812/full/climate.2008.12...

Thanks. Sorry, I was going from memory here. In any case, it'll happen by itself, but it's longer than humans can afford to wait.

Yes that is certainly true.

Re: Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

#227

Its nice picking your time scales and models to convey a message as this image shows when CO2 was in the thousands parts per million. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Phaneroz... Now whilst its true the sun is heating up before it goes super nova millions of years in the future, which is what alot of the global warming fear is based on, and yes man has contributed a small % of CO2 by releasing CO2…

> Its nice picking your time scales and models to convey a message

Yeah, they're totally cherry-picking by only looking at the last four million years. Shocking.

You're right that if we go back, say, 100 million years, we find CO2 levels somewhat higher than today. Other things we find: temperatures 20-40 degrees C higher at the poles than today; something like half of Europe and the US under water.

(See http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/ctl/cliscibeyond.html for a bit more information, though it's not very detailed.)

> the sun is heating up before it goes super nova [...] whch is what alot of the global warming fear is based on

What?

> the biggest threat facing mankind in the next 30 years is the Grand Solar Minimum

Take a look at the graph at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_minimum#Grand_solar_mini... and tell us again, if you can with a straight face, that anything like the Dalton minimum (let alone the Maunder minimum) is coming in the next 30 years.

> When this occurred we had things like increased volcanic activity

So far as I know, there is no reason to think that solar minima cause volcanic activity. It is true that there was a big eruption during the Dalton minimum, which is probably the main actual reason for the "year without a summer".

> estimates suggest around 25% of the global population died

Whose estimates?

> whilst no one wants to create a panic

It looks very much as if you do.

> no one really knows whether our manmade CO2 is going to benefit us or not

No one really knows anything about anything. But you can look in the IPCC reports to see what a bunch of smart well-informed people think are the likely impacts. Or you can throw up your hands and say "no one really knows". Your call.

Re: Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

#228
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is very human-centric point of view. How many species will be lost forever as a direct cause of this event ? Actually, it's your view that's human-centric. Species? Diversity? These are human concepts and mores. > There is no time for evolution to work over the 200 years this last change happened. Evolution doesn't "work". It's merely the process of natural and sexual selection. The flora and fauna are constan…

I find it odd to see people criticizing each other because their comments are too human-centric. I happen to be human, and I believe the same is true of most of the commenters here. I don't really care very much about what happens to the Earth as a whole, but the survival and prosperity of humanity matters a great deal to me.

I find it odd, that you don't care what happens to the Earth as a whole, given that is the only place you can live as a human :)

And the thing is that the prosperity of the human species in the last century has been made largely at the expense of the Earth as whole.

Re: Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. The big fear with climate change is that it's irreversible. That is not the case with the other problems you mention. 2. Climate change is predicted to cause food supply problems for hundreds of millions of people, trillions of dollars of economic damage, and rising sea levels that flood coastal cities. I don't see how the other problems you mention are more dire. 3. The problems you mention – homelessness, drug a…

I've been hearing about the sky falling because of climate change most of my life. Yet in the 1970s it was global cooling. The easiest way to convince someone of a particular 'danger' is to promise world-ending catastrophe. The science was 'settled' on Eugenics during the early 20th century as well and we saw how that turned out. There's no mention of any positive effects of global warming. The climate is certainly c…

> Yet in the 1970s it was global cooling.

Myth. In the 1970s no one was quite sure what was coming, a few people raised the possibility of "global cooling" and one or two journalists hyped it up as journalists are wont to do, but in so far as there was a consensus it was that warming was much more likely to be a problem.

> eugenics

Not, so far as I can tell, a case of the science turning out to be wrong. What happened was that the Nazis were keen on eugenics and most of the world decided that that wasn't the company they wanted to be keeping. It's a change of values, not of scientific understanding.

> positive effects of global warming

The IPCC impact report, for instance, does talk about positive effects. It talks more about negative effects because most of the projected effects are negative.

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