San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents • Hacker News Board

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#221

Post by fokinsean » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 9:44 PM UTC

qntty wrote: post #213

sfotoatx wrote: post #130

Lots of naysayers on HN, but I left SF last year and moved to Austin. I have zero regrets. In SF, my 1 bedroom, 650 square foot apartment in SOMA went from $2,600 to $3,200 over 3 years. In Austin, my salary went down $10k to $120k/yr. My 2 bedroom, 1,100 square foot apartment is $1,150/mo. The tech scene here isn't as vibrant as SF, but there's still plenty of great meet ups. All in all, yes there are some things I…

Sorry if this is off-topic (and maybe a bit personal), but as a recent graduate, I'm not sure what I would do with all that extra money. What do you (or most people) generally spend it on? I make less than that, but if I didn't have student loans, I wouldn't know what to do with it besides leave it in the bank.

> leave it in the bank

cha-ching

That and invest.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#222

Post by bogomipz » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 9:44 PM UTC

pound wrote: post #193

nostrademons wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious if you've lived in the Bay Area for any length of time. I used to live in Boston (which at the time was the #2 tech scene in the country, but has probably been eclipsed by Seattle/NYC/Austin by now). There were startups and meetups and hacker spaces as well, including a number of famous ones. The Bay Area is a huge difference in degree. The difference is that you had to find the "tech scene" in Boston, wh…

but is it a good thing? even if you're an engineer.

Its a good thing if you are a well rounded human being and an engineer. There is no shortage of opportunities for an engineer in NYC - Google, Facebook, Spotify, Twitter, Etsy, Thoughtworks, Pivotal Labs and on and on on. Yes, you can be an engineer and meet people who do other things with their professional lives.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#223

Post by geebee » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 9:44 PM UTC

asfakeaccount wrote: post #129

lettergram wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to say... I'm already nervous in my 3 story building when there is a earthquake. I'd be even more nervous around buildings, when I know the ground is basically sand.

Modern mid rise and skyscrapers are actually safer in earthquakes than the Victoria homes of San Francisco. If our housing consisted of modern housing our city would suffer way less damages than what will happen today if the big one hits.

The french quarter in new orleans is also probably less safe than modern buildings, but I wouldn't want to see it torn down just because rents would be cheaper.

SF does need to build, badly, but I'm wary of the term NIMBY-ism. It is descriptive, but I think it invites false equivalence. There are degrees of NIMBY. I actually think that some of the burbs, like walnut creek or mountain view (especially the latter) have engaged in genuinely shocking levels of refusal to build housing. Mountain view's NIMBYism is especially objectionable since it actually green lighted the corporate construction that brings many new workers to the area, while almost with the same stroke of the pen banned new housing around those places of business. There's NIMBYism, and then there's actually generating the problems that you push out to other neighborhoods.

I'm always a little bummed to read statements by people who, probably out of frustration that I largely share, start to disparage SF's architectural and cultural heritage. It is absolutely possible to grow, dramatically, without tearing down some of the oldest neighborhoods west of the mississippi.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#224

Post by pound » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 9:48 PM UTC

bogomipz wrote: post #222

pound wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but is it a good thing? even if you're an engineer.

Its a good thing if you are a well rounded human being and an engineer. There is no shortage of opportunities for an engineer in NYC - Google, Facebook, Spotify, Twitter, Etsy, Thoughtworks, Pivotal Labs and on and on on. Yes, you can be an engineer and meet people who do other things with their professional lives.

Oh, I wasn't talking about NYC. It was regarding 'tech is the scene' description. Sounds like a hell and I'm an engineer.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#225

Post by bogomipz » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 9:50 PM UTC

jandrese wrote: post #148

malchow wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rents are where they are because of state and local governmental policy. I beg you to go out and find a real estate investor to talk to. In any city in the world with a functioning open market for land use, there are compelling profit opportunities in high-density high-rises, economy box living pods with beige walls, high-end glass condos with verandahs, and everything in between. Prices do not have to do with the Ba…

The prices are directly a result of the Bay Area's beauty. The whole reason the prices are so high is that the city has been absolute in its refusal to let people build giant hideous skyscrapers that would block the view of the bay. Those same ugly monstrosities would provide hundreds of apartments and dig the city out of its ridiculous housing shortage. Rents are high because demand is high and supply is low. Demand…

I don't know how true this is. Have you seen the amount of new construction going on in SF? Soma, Mission Bay, Indian Basin, thats all new. I doubt it's going to drive rents down in any way however.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#226

Post by tim333 » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 9:51 PM UTC

kabes wrote: post #208

vinay427 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's similarly worth noting that CA has the highest income tax rates of any state in the nation for most individuals. For instance, for incomes between around $51k and $263k the rate is 9.30%. My state's rate is 4.25%, which is closer to not having a tax at all.

As a guy from Europe I don't know much about the US tax system. If somebody mentions he earns $120k, I assume that's gross salary? What does he usually end up with net? From what I understand it depends on the state. Is that 4.25% you talk about the only tax there is?

paycheckcity.com calculates $120k pre tax as giving 85k in Texas or 74.8k in Calif after deductions.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#227

Post by runT1ME » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 9:51 PM UTC

sfotoatx wrote: post #130

Lots of naysayers on HN, but I left SF last year and moved to Austin. I have zero regrets. In SF, my 1 bedroom, 650 square foot apartment in SOMA went from $2,600 to $3,200 over 3 years. In Austin, my salary went down $10k to $120k/yr. My 2 bedroom, 1,100 square foot apartment is $1,150/mo. The tech scene here isn't as vibrant as SF, but there's still plenty of great meet ups. All in all, yes there are some things I…

I guess the argument against your move would be potential future earnings. If you top out at your current salary, you made the right choice. But if you continue on an upward trajectory, what do you think the top money (as an employee) could possibly be in Austin? Now compare that to the Bay. I'd guess it's not even close, no?

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#228

Post by nunez » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 9:52 PM UTC

timr wrote: post #186

whack wrote: post #111

It's hard to overstate the impact this is going to have on San Francisco, long-term. As Technology becomes the most important industry in America, a well-governed San Francisco could have positioned itself as the next NYC. The hub where all of tech gathers, the same way all of finance gathered in Wall St. Replace the 70 year old 2-storey homes with Manhattan style apartment buildings, and rent in San Francisco would…

"a well-governed San Francisco could have positioned itself as the next NYC. The hub where all of tech gathers, the same way all of finance gathered in Wall St. Replace the 70 year old 2-storey homes with Manhattan style apartment buildings, and rent in San Francisco would have remained very reasonable, despite the rapid economic growth. This would have prevented exactly this problem where tech workers are forced to…

> I live in SF, but I wouldn't make the choice to move here today. It simply isn't worth Manhattan prices to live in a city full of tech bros where you can't get a good meal after 9:30.

This one took me by surprise when I visited SF for the first time five years ago. I thought it would be booming with activity just like NYC, so I thought nothing of trying to find food when I arrived at ~11pm.

NOTHING. Nothing was open.

It must be a huge bummer to live in a city with NYC prices without that (very important --- to me) NYC perk.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#229

Post by kzhahou » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 9:55 PM UTC

geebee wrote: post #223

asfakeaccount wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern mid rise and skyscrapers are actually safer in earthquakes than the Victoria homes of San Francisco. If our housing consisted of modern housing our city would suffer way less damages than what will happen today if the big one hits.

The french quarter in new orleans is also probably less safe than modern buildings, but I wouldn't want to see it torn down just because rents would be cheaper. SF does need to build, badly, but I'm wary of the term NIMBY-ism. It is descriptive, but I think it invites false equivalence. There are degrees of NIMBY. I actually think that some of the burbs, like walnut creek or mountain view (especially the latter) have…

SF has a lot of beautiful historic architecture, but also absolutely endless rows of bland, ugly, and tightly packed 2-story houses ("houses"). You could build over a quarter of the city and lose nothing.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#230

Post by nunez » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 9:55 PM UTC

whack wrote: post #111

It's hard to overstate the impact this is going to have on San Francisco, long-term. As Technology becomes the most important industry in America, a well-governed San Francisco could have positioned itself as the next NYC. The hub where all of tech gathers, the same way all of finance gathered in Wall St. Replace the 70 year old 2-storey homes with Manhattan style apartment buildings, and rent in San Francisco would…

> and rent in San Francisco would have remained very reasonable, despite the rapid economic growth.

Nah. Manhattan is a really, really expensive (not as expensive as SF, though, on the average) city to live in. SF rents would have dropped, but not enough to cover the influx of people coming in. Rent prices probably would've dropped in other areas of the Bay though.