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Legalize It All

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Re: Legalize It All

#221

Post by madaxe_again »

md224 wrote: post #132
krylon wrote: post #3

We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course…

Does anyone else get almost irrationally angry about this? I HATE that the freedom to modulate our own minds was taken away from us by these awful politicians for such terrible reasons. Not only has the War on Drugs ruined countless lives through incarceration and overdosing, but so many potentially helpful chemicals have been hidden away from society. It isn't just about getting "high"... it's about unleashing our f…

Now, how about that War On Terror?

Perhaps, just perhaps, it wasn't started on the principals it publicly declares to have been started upon - or are we playing the "no, this is different because it's different" game?

Re: Legalize It All

#222

Post by pjc50 »

rayiner wrote: post #150
md224 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone else get almost irrationally angry about this? I HATE that the freedom to modulate our own minds was taken away from us by these awful politicians for such terrible reasons. Not only has the War on Drugs ruined countless lives through incarceration and overdosing, but so many potentially helpful chemicals have been hidden away from society. It isn't just about getting "high"... it's about unleashing our f…

The ability to "modulate [your] . . . mind" is why so many people (80-90% when it comes to drugs besides marijuana), oppose drug legalization. Human society has barely learned to cope with the range of neurological behavior naturally present in the population. It's not unreasonable to be afraid of what might happen when you throw new chemicals into the mix. It's important to remember that most people think the opposi…

they're entitled to structure their society as they see fit.

Not to the extent of abrogating other people's fundamental liberties. A large part of the US white community would quite like an apartheit society, which they are absolutely not allowed to have any more.

Re: Legalize It All

#223

Post by miguelrochefort »

callinyouin wrote: post #44
miguelrochefort wrote: post #23

Oh the hypocrisy. Drugs legalization being trendy, you play the libertarian card. Yet, when it comes to guns or privacy, the same arguments don't hold true anymore. Cherry picking at its best. Gotta love the HN crowd.

I don't think it's cherry picking or hypocrisy at all. The topics you mentioned are complex and largely unrelated. Just because a "legalize it" attitude towards drugs might be considered libertarian doesn't mean one needs to take the libertarian view on guns or privacy. Life is not black and white. A rational person thinks critically about their choices and opinions, and does not decide on something simply because it…

> Life is not black and white. A rational person thinks critically about their choices and opinions, and does not decide on something simply because it fits in with some category.

A rational person seeks consistency and doesn't treat every instance of the same problems as different problems deserving their own interpretation and stance toward.

I'm slowly starting to grasp why the system is so complex. People with the resources to make important decisions lack the intellectual rigor necessary to reach a general understanding of things. That's how we end up with legal systems exceeding the complexity of spacecraft software.

Re: Legalize It All

#224

Post by pbhjpbhj »

pjc50 wrote: post #222
rayiner wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ability to "modulate [your] . . . mind" is why so many people (80-90% when it comes to drugs besides marijuana), oppose drug legalization. Human society has barely learned to cope with the range of neurological behavior naturally present in the population. It's not unreasonable to be afraid of what might happen when you throw new chemicals into the mix. It's important to remember that most people think the opposi…

they're entitled to structure their society as they see fit. Not to the extent of abrogating other people's fundamental liberties. A large part of the US white community would quite like an apartheit society, which they are absolutely not allowed to have any more.

How large?

Re: Legalize It All

#225

Post by auntienomen »

beachy wrote: post #219
polshaw wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try being in the UK right now. The government have even given up the pretence that it has anything to do with harm-- every unapproved psychoactive substance on earth is about to be banned from sale/import. Be thankful at least you are dealing with a blacklist and not a (very short) whitelist! The whitelist being; tea, coffee, alcohol, tobacco/nicotine, in addition to prescription medication.

This happened in New Zealand a couple of years ago. It was the only way to close the Pandora's box of synthetic cannabis. Every time a substance was banned, a process taking months, a new, slightly altered one was on the shelves within literally days. If your intent is to ban psychoactive drugs, a whitelist is the only way it seems.

Legalizing regular cannabis would also close the Pandora's box, by making the production and distribution of synthetics uneconomical.

Re: Legalize It All

#226

Post by pbhjpbhj »

rayiner wrote: post #187
ZoeZoeBee wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You understand that this is the very reason the US is a Republic not a Democracy, and has safe guards to prevent the tyranny of the majority.

Maybe maybe not. Democracy must mean that society has some right to shape how people will behave within it, and sometimes that imposes an affirmative burden on people to behave a certain way (e.g. mandatory schooling). That's not all tyranny.

FWIW mandatory schooling is seen as tyrannical by a not insignificant section of [UK] society. Some even see schooling as primarily a way to establish the populous within an authority structure to allow the ruling classes to maintain control more easily.

An 'affirmative burden' and a 'tyrannical edict' seem like they could differ only in perspective.

Re: Legalize It All

#227

Post by pbhjpbhj »

ZoeZoeBee wrote: post #195
r0fls wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically I believe we are a Democratic Republic, as we directly vote on laws within our states. Legal Marijuana, for instance, was chosen by the Citizens of my state, Oregon; not by elected politicians.

We're really a Federal Republic, a collection of states where the citizens vote on their Representatives, who are then supposed to legislate under the guidelines of a Constitution which delegates power to various branches. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_republic The citizens of Oregon do get to vote on Initiatives and Referendums, that is something which is relatively new to the state 1908, and not the way sta…

... the legislature being comprised of democratically elected representatives, no?

A federal republic of democracies at least?

Re: Legalize It All

#228

Post by joantune »

seizethecheese wrote: post #67
joantune wrote: post #12

I'm not sure about legalizing it all, but me and the world is pretty sure about decriminalizing it, just watch what happened here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbWpXYOg4OQ TL;DR: Highly successful strategy of not marginalizing (both socially and legally) and actually helping addicts: cuts costs, cuts problems, decreases addicts.

The problem with decriminalization without legalization is that it addresses demand but not supply. Black market supply is where a lot of the harm from prohibition materializes.

All i'm saying is that it's better than the policies currently being applied in the U.S. And we (Portugal) are a case study that proves that.

I'm worried that legalization could pass the message that it's ok, while it's not, because real damage comes from the abuse of those illegal drugs.

Re: Legalize It All

#229

Post by soylentcola »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #224
pjc50 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they're entitled to structure their society as they see fit. Not to the extent of abrogating other people's fundamental liberties. A large part of the US white community would quite like an apartheit society, which they are absolutely not allowed to have any more.

How large?

I'm guessing it's "yuuuuge".

Re: Legalize It All

#230

Post by rayiner »

MawNicker wrote: post #196
rayiner wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not making any argument why drug use should be illegal. I'm making an argument for why the public should be entitled to decide whether drug use is legal or illegal. I also think, given your examples, the public should also be entitled to decide whether alcohol should be illegal.

The failure to obtain a college education has an external impact on the families, friends, employers, and coworkers of those failing to be college graduates. Failure to be a college graduate affects the ability to abide by social norms imposed upon everyone. In a developed nation with a safety net, failure to be a college graduate might even implicate society's need to rescue those who can't work or injure themselves…

We require people to get a high school education for precisely the reasons you state.
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