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Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

theguardian.com

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Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#221

Post by michaelbuddy »

optimuspaul wrote: post #176
TallGuyShort wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> police are not routinely armed I'm a gun owner and this is the key point for me. No politician is in a position to tell me I don't need my semi-automatic pistol if every day I see a patrol car go by my house with 2 fully automatic AR-15s locked between the front seats and my local police department owns an armoured vehicle. If you really think you have a plan for getting rid of guns for bad guys as well as me, pro…

Huh, what's wrong with me then. I absolutely do not need a gun, ever. Nobody needs a gun. If you think you need a gun then you have serious problems. Let's talk about basic human needs. Food, water, Air, and to a lesser extent clothing and shelter. You don't need a gun for any of those things. Sure a gun can help with food, but guess what, you don't even need to eat meat, there are so many other sources of food. So n…

What about a musket, one chosen purposefully for inefficient reloading speed. Is that more appealing for home protection because we'd be prevented from committing a mass shooting?

"nobody needs a gun"

This is a statement that for anyone to take seriously requires you to say your age and approx geographic location as it clearly is informing your belief.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#222

Post by lhnz »

mikeash wrote: post #161
lhnz wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried to explain to somebody else here [0] already - "[This establishes] a frame in which stressors are measured solely by their impact on fatality. The extra attention given to terrorism relates more to the conservative fear of losing their 'way of life'. Attempting to measure both of these things solely in relation to their impact on fatality misunderstands the reasons for fear over terrorism and creates a commun…

The "way of life" thing either depends on terrorism killing enough people to destroy our way of life, or it's a self-fulfilling prophecy when we destroy our own way of life by overreacting. Either way, "terrorism doesn't kill very many people, so don't worry about it so much" addresses it. Not that people will listen , but it doesn't fail because it misses the point.

> depends on terrorism killing enough people to destroy our way of life

Demographic and therefore cultural shifts do not only occur when a majority population has a high number of killings. They can also occur when immigrant populations are more fertile than the majority population. Terrorism is a signal of clashing ideologies but this in itself isn't a problem for a majority culture unless they believe themselves to be in rapid decline.

If you want to convince a group of people not to be fearful, you should probably show them communities in which different cultures peacefully co-exist, and actively try to lessen their fears that their own culture is weakening as its members grow older and die. Reducing the causes of fear seems to me a better path than misunderstanding it and then calling them ignorant.

The way everybody is going I see the opposite happening, and it's only going to ramp up fear and hatred. I worry about eventual violence.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#223

Post by AI_Overlord »

magicGLASSman wrote: post #207
AI_Overlord wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, when the gov goes crazy it is usually against some group of people. If you are not part of that group then you may actually believe the gov is quite sane. Also, all it takes is some really bad times for nice people to elect a tyrant. We've seen it before many times in history. Trump phenomenon fueled on xenophobia, racism, and authoritarianism, which is scary for minorities, is an example of a gov that…

I believed the negative hype about Trump till I actually listened to what he had to say in context. I don't agree with the guy on a lot, but the emotional reactions instead logical debate really need to stop >Trump phenomenon fueled on xenophobia, racism, and authoritarianism, which is scary for minorities, is an example of a gov that could go crazy. Sentences like this are not arguments they are emotional regurgitat…

-Calls most Mexicans rapists ands stands by it

-tweets a statistic that most white people are killed by black people, never apologizes, refuses to backtrack

-pretends he has no idea who white extremist groups or the kkk are when asked point blank whether he will disavow their support

... The list goes on and on

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#224

Post by nsxwolf »

valine wrote: post #123
jernfrost wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is actually an extremely weak argument. Iraq had higher gun ownership than the US, and yet they were all under an oppressive dictator. There are actually several oppressive countries with high gun ownership. A bunch of armed citizens does not make an effective army. Untrained and uncoordinated citizens are no match against well trained soldiers. Very few armed resistance fights have succeeded in bringing democra…

I've noticed that too. The trend of right wing gun activists to support increased survalence. It's an odd issue that seems to draw support from both political parties. President Obama has made his stance on privacy and survalence pretty clear. Ironicically it's the same stance that most of the republican candidates are taking.

I am a right wing gun nut and I am strongly pro-Snowden, for what its worth. I am a gun nut because I fear government, and the NSA revelations are proof that my fears are justified.

A lot of other gun nuts think like me. Don't assume the Republican party represents us.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#225

Post by knz »

pjc50 wrote: post #12

Since this is today's gun argument thread, I'll just point out that the UK is currently commemorating the 20th anniversary of its first and last "mass shooting" incident, at a school in Dunblane, Scotland. The ensuing total ban on handguns and further restriction on gun licensing mean that mass shootings are nonexistant, firearm murders are extremely rare (about one per year in a country of 60m), shooting of suspects…

Let's not forget that the UK also doesn't have brown bears, black bears, mountain lions, wolves, coyotes, and a southern border with a country that routinely has horrific murders involving decapitated bodies. Personally I can understand why SOME Americans feel the need to carry a firearm. It's highly unlikely that you would be harmed by the animals mentioned above or even be affected by the violence in Mexico, but it's also unlikely that you will need your smoke alarm or seat belt on any given day. We don't all live in safe urban areas where the police are minutes away.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#226

Post by pbhjpbhj »

youngone wrote: post #45
akhatri_aus wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It certainly doesn't feel anything like the charts in this article. I've heard of crimes with that damned pocket knife but never a gun.

> Data doesn't fit my pre-conceptions. Better ignore the data.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachm... can't find data for other periods it's a really warren of twisty passages when one seeks out stats without a thorough knowledge of an area.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#227

Post by LyndsySimon »

skewart wrote: post #214
forgetsusername wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good point. I think it's ingrained in American culture (and the Constitution) that part of the purpose of personal gun ownership is to curb governmental power. How can gun control be justified when police are roaming around like a para-military group?

I completely agree that the "curb government power" is a common argument for gun ownership in the US. However, I've never understood the logic behind it. Do people really think their handgun is going to help them resist a predator drone strike? The US military is vastly more powerful than any gun owner. Do people really think they can compete? What's more, advocates of legal gun ownership often also push for more mil…

> Do people really think their handgun is going to help them resist a predator drone strike?

For a single person, or a small group? I know of no one who believes that.

> The US military is vastly more powerful than any gun owner. Do people really think they can compete?

The US military is composed predominately of gun owners :).

> What's more, advocates of legal gun ownership often also push for more military spending (though that might be less true here on HN). Am I missing something here?

From my perspective, this is almost pure cognitive dissonance. They also tend to support things like NSA spying and restrictions on effective encryption.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#228

Post by rogersmith »

optimuspaul wrote: post #213
rogersmith wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then on the other hand we have: Exhibit A) Switzerland, 25 guns for 100 inhabitants, two mass shootings in the last 100 years Exhibit B) France, extremely restrictive gun laws, two mass shootings in less than one year So there's that...

France has 31.2 guns for 100 inhabitants. Also Switzerland's gun control laws are probably more extreme than that of France.

France may have more guns per inhabitants but it's mostly hunting rifles/sports gun.

Swiss gun laws are definitely not as strict as France's. Look it up.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#229

Post by talmand »

rogersmith wrote: post #203
pjc50 wrote: post #12

Since this is today's gun argument thread, I'll just point out that the UK is currently commemorating the 20th anniversary of its first and last "mass shooting" incident, at a school in Dunblane, Scotland. The ensuing total ban on handguns and further restriction on gun licensing mean that mass shootings are nonexistant, firearm murders are extremely rare (about one per year in a country of 60m), shooting of suspects…

Then on the other hand we have: Exhibit A) Switzerland, 25 guns for 100 inhabitants, two mass shootings in the last 100 years Exhibit B) France, extremely restrictive gun laws, two mass shootings in less than one year So there's that...

All you'll get out of B is responses about terrorism and it doesn't count.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#230

Post by jksmith »

optimuspaul wrote: post #176
TallGuyShort wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> police are not routinely armed I'm a gun owner and this is the key point for me. No politician is in a position to tell me I don't need my semi-automatic pistol if every day I see a patrol car go by my house with 2 fully automatic AR-15s locked between the front seats and my local police department owns an armoured vehicle. If you really think you have a plan for getting rid of guns for bad guys as well as me, pro…

Huh, what's wrong with me then. I absolutely do not need a gun, ever. Nobody needs a gun. If you think you need a gun then you have serious problems. Let's talk about basic human needs. Food, water, Air, and to a lesser extent clothing and shelter. You don't need a gun for any of those things. Sure a gun can help with food, but guess what, you don't even need to eat meat, there are so many other sources of food. So n…

Imagine the absurdity of US citizens being told this by their government, who then drafts their 18 year old children and sends them to a foreign land to kill people with the most lethal technology the US military industrial complex can come up with. Paid for by US citizens tax dollars.
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