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Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

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Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#221

One of the main reasons of the housing crisis in the Bay Area is Prop 13 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_13_(197... ) Prop 13 basically keeps the property taxes constant (or 1% increase) as the value of your house increases (doubles or triples). Your tax gets re-calculated only if you sell your house and the new owner starts paying potentially multiples of what the previous owner has been payin…

> My solution would be to jack up the real estate inheritance tax and allocate that money for public transportation and affordable housing.

In Silicon Valley product management there's the saying 'for every yes, there's a thousand no's."

In housing politics for every good idea, there's 100k people who will complain and sue.

The only policies implemented usually fall under the following categories

1) Irrational populism.

2) A backroom deal pushed by lobbyists and their political allies.

Sensible ideas usually don't fall into those categories.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The few tech companies in vancouver don't pay. The tech companies in Vancouver haven't increased pay in step with skyrocketing housing. If you can find data on employee pay in the tech industry (good luck) you'd find it'd be fairly consistent. Compared to housing prices in Vancouver, you'd likely be looking at hockey stick growth. That's the disconnect. If Hootsuite paid minimum wage, but cost-to-live was free, the…

>>> Tech is only a small part, and fixing it for one small sector isn't going to do much on a macro scale. Very convenient. Not attempting to fix a problem until everyone else is onboard is a great way of not doing anything. If tech companies want to retain talent, pay for it. Don't lambaste the city or the economy. There is nothing more hypocritical than a CEO of a profitable company complaining about retention. If…

Wow, I don't know what that comment has a greater supply of, ignorance or cynicism. Being paid more =/= fixing housing crisis.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This goes for Canadian employers in general, not just those in Vancouver. I'm not sure how they expect to retain talent when they offer on average about half the salary of similar positions in the US when adjusted for currency (and I'm not even talking about SF... Seattle is a 3 hour drive from Vancouver and moving there can easily double your salary with a comparable cost of living), especially since the barrier to…

The US, even Seattle, can be a culture shock for many Canadians. It is a very different country. I know of several people who have fled the US after only a couple years. It generally boils down to race, religion and guns, all of which are radically different on either side of the boarder. It's not that one is better than the other, but that a person raised in one environment can be taken aback by the immediacy of the…

There's virtually no religion or guns in Seattle. And I'm not sure what race you're talking about, but I can only guess Asian (since Canadian isn't a race!) and even growing up in the 80s half my friends were Asian.

We're not talking about Oklahoma here.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#224
post #82

It seems like many major cities of the world are experiencing this problem, and no city has been able to come up with a good solution. It always leads to displacement and newspaper articles about displacement, but no real solutions. Here are a couple of solutions: 1. Build really tall. Hasn't worked out all that great in Hong Kong, though. 2. Rent control. This is often unfair and inflates price of non-rent controlle…

I have witnessed and seen the day to day effects of a city (albeit, a very small one) that did find a solution to this problem: Aspen, Colorado.

It's a tremendous outlier - both in population (8000 full time residents) and in pricing (even more expensive free market housing than any of the big markets that are typically discussed).

The solution was to build city-subsidized "resident housing" that actual residents (as opposed to seasonal) enter a lottery to win, which gives them the ability to purchase the property (again, subsidized) and become property owners inside Aspen. Although the property itself can appreciate with the market, the owner can only realize 2-4% appreciation per year - the rest goes back to the city.

It works. There is a legitimate, affordable path to actual home ownership for regular folks in Aspen, and it takes those people out of the "affordable" rental pool which softens the pricing pressure for people who aren't staying forever or who haven't won a lottery share yet.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#225

If having essentially no affordable housing rendered a city an economic ghost town, then much of the Bay area and Manhattan would be "ghost towns" - which, in turn, would lower housing prices radically. What might happen to Vancouver is probably similar to other major cities with housing crunches but an otherwise desirable economic climate: lower wage workers will be displaced further from the city and forced to comm…

As someone who moved from Vancouver to SF 4-5 years ago:

1. You can drive across a bridge to the east bay and find housing that is half price in semi decent neighborhoods. You can drive out for 2 hours and find housing that is the standard american price. In vancouver, driving for an hour just gives you a 100-200k discount on housing that is already over $1 million, there are no real affordable places to escape to unlike the USA.

2. Nobody in vancouver makes an income over six figures unless you're in the standard professions that make that much, such as doctors, high level managers and successful business owners. Only a very small amount of people are in those professions, and those jobs are not concentrated in any specific area. You could go be a doctor in quebec, alberta or some other small town and still make a similar income but have a far lower housing cost. There is nothing unique or high powered economically about Vancouver, it's not the center of anything. Vancouver's economic climate is NOT desirable.

3. This affordability issue has been a problem for almost a decade, and the provincial & federal governments show no real signs of having any desire to fix it. The only thing that makes it pseudo-affordable is the fact that rent is usually half price to a current mortgage. Housing has increased in vancouver 1:1 with the GDP of the city last year, which is freaking insane. People who have owned houses have gained more than their incomes for years! For comparison, the crazy SF Bay Area is something around 1:6 with (house value increases):GDP.

4. If you're stuck in canada, then there are better places to go to as far as money:price ratios go.

I could go on and on about this, but you get the general idea. Vancouver is pretty much dead to me economically and it saddens me that it will never be a good idea to move back at this rate.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#226
post #58

sure, you can't buy a house in Vancouver anymore on a normal salary, but nothing prevents you from living in Surrey, there are plenty of towers going up around the skytrain at Surrey central and King George where you can get an apartment for less than 200k Yes, it's not Vancouver city, and yes, it's not a house, however via skytrain you can be downtown in a little over 40 minutes and get work done on your laptop in t…

This sort of thing is true broadly. It's a bit more complicated in California because the South Bay is also very popular and very expensive, but the trendy areas of many downtowns have, over a relatively short period, become very popular with, among others, a certain young & educated demographic that really has turned them into luxury goods. This has arguably long been the case in some places like Manhattan. Going ba…

The Bay Area has been really bad about building, but some of the huge explosions in housing, for example the big towers going up in Redwood City, might finally help alleviate a bit of pressure.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that a housing issue, though? Paying for a $2350/mo place on $60k is... pretty ridiculous.

That's a lifestyle issue. No fresh grad ($60k) should live in "trendy" Yaletown district with 2 BR + 2 Bath.

A lot of fresh grads (from UBC) in Vancouver are living around Kitsilano where you can get a one bedroom place for Previously to that in Vancouver I lived in the heart of Yaletown in a 550sqft studio costing about $1300/month, and started living there on a salary of about $62k.

I've never had financial struggles living in Vancouver with salaries ranging from $42-85k, and have generally had enough disposable income to afford to travel quite a bit, ski at Whistler every weekend, and eat out and go out regularly.

That said, it's totally a renter's market. It's unaffordable for me to buy anything that I'd want to live in for the longer term, unless I go to Surrey or somewhere else in greater Vancouver, which would completely take away or hinder a lot of the benefits I see to living in Vancouver.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

San Francisco housing is expensive BECAUSE of the incomes. Vancouver housing is expensive DESPITE the incomes. It's more of a housing issue than an income one. If incomes were higher, rents would only go up as well.

I don't see why we have to separate the two. It sounds like Vancouver faces both increasingly high rent and abnormally low salary for tech jobs (although I recognize that we might not expect Silicon Valley level pay).

It's not just Vancouver that's experiencing abnormally low salaries for tech jobs, all of Canada is.

The brain drain is slow but inevitable.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Berlin's values have risen to the point where rents are on average 10 euros per square meter. You can rent a 100 sqm for only 1000 euros per month!!!! You can't get 40 sqm for that same amount in Paris.

I moved to Berlin recently from Sydney. My rent is 60% of what I was paying in Sydney, and for a nicer apartment. I can't believe more people aren't moving here. (Maybe I shouldn't say so. Keep the secret to those who know.)

Well, as someone who's considering Australia and NZ as potential destinations, both language and visa situations are big hurdles to clear for moving to Berlin.

Maybe you have an European or U.S. citizenship, but they're harder towards South Americans. Also, software development salaries weren't something to write home about last time I checked (that was some a long time ago admittedly).

Edit: According to Glassdoor, Berlin Software Engineer Salary: €48000 (average)

Sydney Software Engineer Salary: $80000 (average)

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